Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
scheffers
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:37 am

ReoPTy wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 am
remember that when you doesn't push on engine side and change it every night while winter testing everything is possible, post winter analyse marsh 2018

"Starting off on the right foot
Toro Rosso's fire-up was completed a day ahead of schedule. Their filming day ran without problems. Then in testing, Brendon Hartley gave Toro Rosso the honour of being the first team out of the pits, going on to complete an impressive 93 laps on the opening day. The next three days were smooth and they ended the first test - to some surprise - at the top of the mileage charts. It was a staggering turnaround from where both reliability-stricken parties had been 12 months ago.

Come the end of the second week, Toro Rosso had a total of 822 laps on the board. Last year, Honda managed just 425 with McLaren. Interestingly, if Honda had three teams and completed similar mileage, they would have amassed 2466 laps, which is more than Ferrari and Renault and just shy of what Mercedes achieved"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ewekK.html

far of the results honda had along 2018 season, so i would stay very cautious for 2019
Indeed, we have no idea what is really going on. All the optimism on a 2017 concept engine that had vibration/resonance problems all throughout it's lifetime...... As I said before, I really HOPE they figure it out. But to me a software-workaround these vibrations every time they find a bit of performance does not seem a structural solution.

McMika98
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by McMika98 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:53 am

scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:37 am
ReoPTy wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 am
remember that when you doesn't push on engine side and change it every night while winter testing everything is possible, post winter analyse marsh 2018

far of the results honda had along 2018 season, so i would stay very cautious for 2019
Indeed, we have no idea what is really going on. All the optimism on a 2017 concept engine that had vibration/resonance problems all throughout it's lifetime...... As I said before, I really HOPE they figure it out. But to me a software-workaround these vibrations every time they find a bit of performance does not seem a structural solution.
When a rookie who never even had an F1 practice session is pulling out 130+ laps with consistent times, its a strong indication that there aint no vibration issues. It looks promising on race conditions and cant see why they would have issues when they turn the wick up. In the famous words of Ron Dennis the thing is a jewel.

scheffers
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Egginton now explicitly saying; no problems with vibrations.

scheffers
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm

scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:38 pm
Egginton now explicitly saying; no problems with vibrations.
actually he didnt explicitly say this.... dutch website quoting wrong , this is what he said:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14170 ... toro-rosso

Jaisonas
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:30 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Jaisonas » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:20 pm

ReoPTy wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:08 am
remember that when you doesn't push on engine side and change it every night while winter testing everything is possible, post winter analyse marsh 2018

"Starting off on the right foot
Toro Rosso's fire-up was completed a day ahead of schedule. Their filming day ran without problems. Then in testing, Brendon Hartley gave Toro Rosso the honour of being the first team out of the pits, going on to complete an impressive 93 laps on the opening day. The next three days were smooth and they ended the first test - to some surprise - at the top of the mileage charts. It was a staggering turnaround from where both reliability-stricken parties had been 12 months ago.

Come the end of the second week, Toro Rosso had a total of 822 laps on the board. Last year, Honda managed just 425 with McLaren. Interestingly, if Honda had three teams and completed similar mileage, they would have amassed 2466 laps, which is more than Ferrari and Renault and just shy of what Mercedes achieved"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... ewekK.html

far of the results honda had along 2018 season, so i would stay very cautious for 2019
You need to realize that they're having a completely different testing program this year. Last year they were testing the Honda engine itself so they run as much laps as possible, while this year, they're testing the chassis and the aero structure hence coming in and out the pits with different aero parts, flo-vis, etc

Wouter
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Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:23 pm

scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm
scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:38 pm
Egginton now explicitly saying; no problems with vibrations.
actually he didnt explicitly say this.... dutch website quoting wrong , this is what he said:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14170 ... toro-rosso
The Dutch site wasn't quoting wrong at all!

That's what Jody Egginton, the new technical director of Scuderia Toro Rosso, told GPToday.net in Barcelona:

"No, as far as vibrations are concerned, there's nothing wrong with Honda. They are running their own program, as an earlier press release made clear that the Honda program has been working fantastically over the past few days. They are working very hard in the background. They do their own thing and they make sure that we do not experience complications, the situation with the power unit is great and we have moved on to where we ended last year, Honda is doing a great job and we let them do their work. "

scheffers
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Wouter wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:23 pm
scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:53 pm
scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:38 pm
Egginton now explicitly saying; no problems with vibrations.
actually he didnt explicitly say this.... dutch website quoting wrong , this is what he said:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14170 ... toro-rosso
The Dutch site wasn't quoting wrong at all!

That's what Jody Egginton, the new technical director of Scuderia Toro Rosso, told GPToday.net in Barcelona:

"No, as far as vibrations are concerned, there's nothing wrong with Honda. They are running their own program, as an earlier press release made clear that the Honda program has been working fantastically over the past few days. They are working very hard in the background. They do their own thing and they make sure that we do not experience complications, the situation with the power unit is great and we have moved on to where we ended last year, Honda is doing a great job and we let them do their work. "
ok, point me out the quote where he names vibrations, in the English article.. which I trust more. GPToday has a hand of taking over wrong quotes and/or translating like crap and/or making their own stories.

scheffers
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:37 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by scheffers » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:38 pm

But then again, all speculation and very very very long shots here haha. Need to find us some entertaining 'debates' to fight over, can't wait to 16 march to see what they can do!

nzjrs
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by nzjrs » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:51 pm

scheffers wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:38 pm
But then again, all speculation and very very very long shots here haha. Need to find us some entertaining 'debates' to fight over, can't wait to 16 march to see what they can do!
Two pages and dozens of posts doing nothing but increasing entropy in the universe over a non issue you raised.

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:13 pm

I almost wish testing was done on a track that pushes the Honda power unit to it's limit, like Silverstone Spa or China. I still think they'll have issues on tracks like that versus Ferrari and Mercedes. Unless they have a safety car or two, they'll be running out of ERS steam compared to the top 2. Hopefully Honda's collaboration with IHI improves turbine efficiency, and allows them to recover more energy from the MGU-H while not sapping too much power from the ICE.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

henry
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by henry » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:00 pm

Here’s some Honda numbers to put Spain into context.

The Figures come from Honda article page 844 of this thread with some additional massaging. They are time spent above 90% throttle (seconds) in qualifying 2017

Monaco 16.931
Singapore 30.354
Mexico 32.638
Hungary 40.325
Spain 41.334
Canada 46.427
China 50.961
Brazil 54.936
Austria 55.106
USA 57.004
Bahrain 57.073
Australia 58.089
Azerbaijan63.644
Malaysia 65.110
Russia 65.729
Japan 68.922
Britain 70.668
Belgium 81.970

Faster cars will have spent less time at full throttle, my guess is that these numbers are not far off a leading car on a fast race lap.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:37 pm

Why are people always have to be negative about Honda,their best result have been traditionally at engine circuits,infants it's Renault who are running out of electric power on straight during testing their mguk is not working properly,giving how confident Rbr are with the engine & Wolff said merc didn't reach their target they run the risk of being overtaken by Honda

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:36 am

Bill wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:37 pm
Why are people always have to be negative about Honda,their best result have been traditionally at engine circuits,infants it's Renault who are running out of electric power on straight during testing their mguk is not working properly,giving how confident Rbr are with the engine & Wolff said merc didn't reach their target they run the risk of being overtaken by Honda
I never said anything about engine power. Engine power is not what they lack, in fact it's very good, what they lack is ERS endurance, and not in a global sense, but only relative to Mercedes and Ferrari. Honda themselves have said that for them, the balance between crank power and MGU-H recovery on certain tracks is a key issue. Improving ERS and turbine efficiency will make the balance between crank energy and MGU-H energy easier to deal with.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Hino
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Hino » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:47 am

Here is a bit from Graham Watson from STR talking about Honda's PU development from Test 3 Session 1.

Tzk
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Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:49 am

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tzk » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:36 am

I love how he states that the fullcar dyno helped a lot when it comes to tuning the engine. I'd expect them to run the engine on said dyno before every race to make sure they don't get issues with up/downshifts and to find the best way for mgu-h and mgu-k usage.

Very nice and a great insight.