Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:48 pm

10hp figure looks suspect why do all this numbers always multiple of ten. Febregga is getting his news from this thread that number was first suggested here ,Mercedes according to Lewis their update only brought realibity not additional power so they is nothing to laugh at.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:57 pm

Stef wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:09 pm
That's what Marko said at the start of the season, no, 5 PUs ?
What I think about their pre season plan is it is changed because of big dominance of Merc. I think they now not thinks about how many engine used but how much power gained.

loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by loner » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:14 pm

Stef wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:09 pm
That's what Marko said at the start of the season, no, 5 PUs ?
iam not aware but seems so after googled it
if we take the current pattern an update after 4 races you still have 2 updates one at Hungary and finally in Russia
however i highly doubt an update will occur in Hungary since its a winnable race.
para bellum.

maguetox
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by maguetox » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:18 pm

loner wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:59 pm
Wouter wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:02 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:53 am
This is a realistic number
I don't think this is a realistic number. When it is only 10HP Honda never would introduce a new engine .
I think it is more 15-20 hp and better drivability and more often and longer use the batteries.
imagine honda racing boss to say .. oh look our collaboration with the Aero engine department with all their knowledge and technology in the area of aerodynamic design, working alongside turbocharger manufacturer IHI.
lead to 10 hp increase :lol: :lol:
so my guess from Fabrega tweet will be this update is in 2 parts one will debut in France and the other part the (major) one will be some where before summer end.. how this can be regarding the spec 4 in September update i have no clue.. will they go with 5 PU?!!
It looks really strange that only 10HP, it looks to me they rushed this upgrade in order to evaluate something else, and here I´m interconnecting with what Max just recently said:

......."Of course we all know that we need to do better but I believe in the project we are in together with Honda.

"So, we are just working hard now to of course step up the performance and we'll see in the upcoming races where we will be.

"If you get a bit more power, a bit more balance in the car, then suddenly it looks a lot different."

So I buy the idea that this PU upgrade is in two stages, the first one, this one, is to help evaluate something that Red Bull needs in their aero or mechanical side, the second one will be the real upgrade.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:01 pm

It can be just 10 hp as peak power but more mgu-h gain for longer mgu-k support during race. Maybe..

godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:05 pm

I'm excited at the possibility because numbers alone don't tell the whole picture. There are many ways to get tangible gains without substantially more power.

To me that they use the Honda Aero program means they are treating the unit not primarily as a reciprocating combustion engine, but as a hybrid turbine/reciprocating piston engine. It's almost like a turbo/prop, but instead of a propeller it's a pair of wheels. I feel the electrical and fuel system sophistication allow one to treat the ICE as the combustor in a traditional turbine engine, and it is the turbo that is running the show. The ERS allows one to have the turbine run independently of the ICE, thus it is not the turbine that becomes dependent on the ICE for power but rather the ICE becomes dependent on the turbo for power.

So just the change in philosophy itself can bring gains, not just peak power, but shape of power band, ability to extract more work from the ERS, make improvements to efficiency for more harvesting, etc. True all these things can be altered by reducing or increasing power, but to get these gains while both increasing power and reliability is much more difficult to do. The fact that they're doing it on such a consistent basis should give one hope.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:59 pm

10hp more on the crank and more MGU-H recovery, to allow for longer MGU-K deployment or longer open-wastegate mode.

McMika98
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by McMika98 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm

https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180

Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.

Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:27 pm

The difference between Max and Ferrari has been less than 1 tenth if you exclude Canada so a 10hp if you reduce time by a tenth could yield valuable grid position

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:39 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm
https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180

Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.
Renault is more powerfull, maybe even on par with Mercedes in racing mode.

But Honda is the better choice for RBR. Better reliability, rate of development and collaboration/integration, fuel tuning, etc...

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:54 pm

Some say that when the update is big Marko will talk things down.

Spec3 is the first part of the upgraded architecture delivered by HondaAero and IHI. The rest is still being developed by Honda's "skunkworks" and as Marko stated expected around Monza if not sooner. Spec4 will be a big jump, a culmination of the upgrades that preceded it, with the remaining elements in place to deliver on the hopes of Red Bull and all of Honda.
This next one has a lot of reputation on the line and has to be bulletproof.

j.yank
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by j.yank » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:29 pm

McMika98 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm
https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180

Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.
What exactly from "aero settings" you do not understand? Your claims are bogus.

nzjrs
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by nzjrs » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:30 pm

j.yank wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:29 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:16 pm
https://unendinginsight.wordpress.com/2 ... #more-1180

Honda losing 2 tenths to Renault on straight. No point in speculating random horsepower numbers. Pure factual data here to back my claims which i guess no one wants to know.
So spec 3 Honda will still be weaker than Spec 2 Renault and the rest of the field, this is from Max's mouth and not me. Spec 4.0 in 5 races now.
What exactly from "aero settings" you do not understand? Your claims are bogus.
He is a troll. He hasn't posted for a couple of days - I presume he was banned. Best to ignore him.

etusch
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by etusch » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 pm


Red Bull’s Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly, plus Toro Rosso’s Daniil Kvyat, will have a fresh, updated Honda power unit in the back of their cars for this weekend’s French Grand Prix – and while encouraged, the trio have moved to play down expectations regarding a power increase.

Honda have been playing catch-up in the engine stakes since they returned to F1, but have been on an upward trajectory since parting ways with McLaren and joining Toro Rosso last year, before adding Red Bull to their stable this season.

Data from the Japanese manufacturer’s dynos at Sakura showed a power improvement, so they have opted to bring the update – their third of the season – to the track. And while running the new internal combustion engine and turbocharger means a penalty for Kvyat in France and Verstappen and Gasly set for penalties with their next change, it’s a move that has the full support of Red Bull and Toro Rosso.

It is a little step forward,” said Verstappen. “It’s not going to be enough to really challenge Ferrari and Mercedes on the straights but every little bit helps us. We just keep pushing forward.

“It’s never less than what they promise so that’s good. They are very realistic and honest about it. That’s way more important than promising things and not delivering. They are definitely delivering so they are definitely on target.


“As a driver, you always want more – but they know that and they’re working hard. We already said at the beginning of the season, if there is something better, bring it, we don’t wait. We’ll take penalties at some point this year, but that’s not a problem. We just want to find the performance.”

His team mate Gasly echoed those sentiments. “The last we introduced was more on the reliability side, this one will be focused more on the performance, but we don’t expect a massive gain from it,” he said.

“The overall performance will be slightly increased, but it’s not like it’s going to change massively, or we’re going to catch the teams ahead of us massively. Let’s see what we can do during the weekend. It will give us a bit more in the race. It’s not going to be a massive difference in qualifying, but a bit more in the race.”

Kvyat, who will likely start from the back of the grid, will get the update whereas team mate Alexander Albon will have to wait because Toro Rosso didn’t want to take penalties with both cars. It has also emerged Kvyat’s engine was chosen as the one to change because they were concerned about his current unit.

“We really had to take it here because the guys saw something on my PU which they didn’t like a lot, so we take the update, just to be sure," said Kvyat.

“It was available for here, so we thought, ‘why not?’, so we’ll see how it will deliver. Hopefully it will have even more power than what we expect. It would be a nice surprise. We’re talking about small numbers, so I don’t expect any big changes [or to] turn the world upside down.”


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... NHZQo.html

TNTHead
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by TNTHead » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:43 pm

etusch wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 pm

Red Bull’s Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly, plus Toro Rosso’s Daniil Kvyat, will have a fresh, updated Honda power unit in the back of their cars for this weekend’s French Grand Prix – and while encouraged, the trio have moved to play down expectations regarding a power increase.

Honda have been playing catch-up in the engine stakes since they returned to F1, but have been on an upward trajectory since parting ways with McLaren and joining Toro Rosso last year, before adding Red Bull to their stable this season.

Data from the Japanese manufacturer’s dynos at Sakura showed a power improvement, so they have opted to bring the update – their third of the season – to the track. And while running the new internal combustion engine and turbocharger means a penalty for Kvyat in France and Verstappen and Gasly set for penalties with their next change, it’s a move that has the full support of Red Bull and Toro Rosso.

It is a little step forward,” said Verstappen. “It’s not going to be enough to really challenge Ferrari and Mercedes on the straights but every little bit helps us. We just keep pushing forward.

“It’s never less than what they promise so that’s good. They are very realistic and honest about it. That’s way more important than promising things and not delivering. They are definitely delivering so they are definitely on target.


“As a driver, you always want more – but they know that and they’re working hard. We already said at the beginning of the season, if there is something better, bring it, we don’t wait. We’ll take penalties at some point this year, but that’s not a problem. We just want to find the performance.”

His team mate Gasly echoed those sentiments. “The last we introduced was more on the reliability side, this one will be focused more on the performance, but we don’t expect a massive gain from it,” he said.

“The overall performance will be slightly increased, but it’s not like it’s going to change massively, or we’re going to catch the teams ahead of us massively. Let’s see what we can do during the weekend. It will give us a bit more in the race. It’s not going to be a massive difference in qualifying, but a bit more in the race.”

Kvyat, who will likely start from the back of the grid, will get the update whereas team mate Alexander Albon will have to wait because Toro Rosso didn’t want to take penalties with both cars. It has also emerged Kvyat’s engine was chosen as the one to change because they were concerned about his current unit.

“We really had to take it here because the guys saw something on my PU which they didn’t like a lot, so we take the update, just to be sure," said Kvyat.

“It was available for here, so we thought, ‘why not?’, so we’ll see how it will deliver. Hopefully it will have even more power than what we expect. It would be a nice surprise. We’re talking about small numbers, so I don’t expect any big changes [or to] turn the world upside down.”


https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... NHZQo.html
Interesting. Kvyat with new PU and Albon with the previous spec for comparison?