Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Alexf1
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Alexf1 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:18 pm

Could it be that the for Sochi expected new turbo + intake that Wazari wrote about is something that Ferrari is doing but is under such debate that Honda is postponing it because it only wants it to be introduced if its FIA confirmed to be legal? Didn't Horner say at Monza that they had not received answers yet from the FIA upon their questions concerning legality of some PU thoughts/ideas?

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:33 pm

Nah. According to honda's philosphy with these engines they wouldn't waste time over silly polutical games. They are bringing the innovations to track at any opportunity they can.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Jejking
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Jejking » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:18 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:33 pm
Nah. According to honda's philosphy with these engines they wouldn't waste time over silly polutical games. They are bringing the innovations to track at any opportunity they can.
I like how you accidentally came up with a new word, a hybrid between political and polution. These games are played behind closed doors and have usually negative influences on how things are supposed to go.

Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:14 am

Let set the record ones and for all

https://www.essentiallysports.com/red-b ... sults/amp/

nzjrs
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by nzjrs » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:02 pm

A nice little story about the development of the new fuel for Spec 4. https://www.crash.net/f1/feature/931871 ... ate-suzuka

Some interesting information;
“We had a different fuel that we were working on for mid-year, and then when this fuel initial testing came about, we thought ‘let’s shift modes here’,” Tsurusaki said. “We actually dropped the launch of that one mid-summer, the first upgrade, and we just concentrated on this.

“When they started working on the Spec 4 engine, that’s when some ideas came up. We started doing the design work against the single-cylinder Spec 4, and that started looking good. It was like ‘OK, how soon can you get an engine? How soon can we get more fuel?’ - the same kind of thing.

“The Honda team actually was very encouraged by information that they had and wanted to pursue it, so we said let’s give it a shot. By say mid-summer, then it was all-hands-on-deck to see if we could really pull this off. It’s been an exciting three months getting ready for this.”
A change in strategy wrt. introducing a new fuel. This means it's at least 3 months to make a new blend, and from that I would estimate that a new engine spec is about 3-6 months. One now assumes multiple engine specifications are thus developed in parallel, staggered.

Interesting to hear that single cylinder testing for fuel is the most informative first experiment.

ispano6
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:38 am

新燃料について具体的に質問された浅木泰昭は「ノッキングに代表されるように、エンジンにダメージを与えるような燃焼を抑えながら、いかに熱効率、同じ燃料量からピストンを押し下げる力を強くするか、気筒内の圧力を上げていくかということだ。それを両立させることが燃料開発。異常燃焼を避け、爆発圧力を高めるということだ」とコメント。
Asked what the purpose of the new fuel was, Asaki replies "Largely encompassing Knocking, reducing damage due to combustion, increasing efficiency and power utilizing the same fuel amount, and increasing internal cylinder pressure."
He also reveals the other Honda entity that assisted in the ExxonMobil fuel collaboration:
「以前も話したが、ホンダジェットの部門がパワーユニットの開発に協力してたのと同じような形で、先端技術研究所のジェット機用燃料などを含めて未来の燃料を研究している部署、協力してもらい開発した。F1に使える燃料としては既存のガソリンに成分として含まれているものを使って開発する必要があり、ホンダ側である程度あたりをつけて『こんなものががいい』という話をエクソンと話しながら、パワーユニットのマッチングを行なっていった」
Like I had mentioned before, similar to how Honda Jet assisted in power unit development, the Honda R&D Innovative Research Excellence, a division working on Jet fuel and future fuel technology assisted in development. With the intent for F1 use and with the need to utilize existing gasoline ingredients, from Honda side asked for a particular type of fuel, and with collaboration with Exxon, worked to match it to the power unit.
「正直に言えば、F1に協力してほしいというと最初はあまりいい顔をされない場合もあった。だが、最近では勝つと一緒に喜び、逆に負けると一緒に悔しがってもらえる仲間になってきている。そうした一体感をもららす効果のようなこともある」
Honestly speaking, when asked (other divisions) to contribute to the Honda F1 program, in the beginning it was met with a negative response. However, recently, the joy of winning and agony of defeat is becoming something we're all sharing more. This has given us solidarity.
Honda F1 Special Feature: PU Development Manager Yasuaki Asagi speaks at the forefront of F1 engine development
https://f1-gate.com/honda/f1_52742.html

Note: This is my personal translation, not a Autosport forum member's or an autotranslate.
Last edited by ispano6 on Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

bigblue
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by bigblue » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:28 am

ispano6 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:38 am
Honestly speaking, when asked (other divisions) to contribute to the Honda F1 program, in the beginning it was met with a negative response. However, recently, the joy of winning and agony of defeat is becoming something we're all sharing more. This has given us solidarity.
Wow, what happened to "without racing, there is no Honda" ? At least they've seen the light, hopefully it helps the company stay innovative and adventurous.

Capharol
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Capharol » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:15 pm

THAT SOUND!, THIS IS LOVE!!!!! 😍😍😍😍😍
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
"Most people seem to turn off their brain when they turn on the computer and log in to social media."

Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Snorked » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:27 pm

Asaki held a PU briefing before Suzuka

https://youtu.be/OIpCQE-de20

Image
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:43 pm

Any Suzuka 2019 engine shots?
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Snorked » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:49 pm

Doesn't look like it. if they had the engine on display at Suzuka we would have seen it by now. If Honda do show it off in end of season magazines, this is the guy who takes the official photos - https://serakota.blog.ss-blog.jp/

Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Bill » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:57 pm

According to Honda the goal of this season was to match Mercedes and they say it have been achieved. But looking at that graph it's close but no their yet unless Honda thinks they have a better Ers unit and as a package they can match Mercedes. Mercedes and Ferrari looks about equal despite claims Ferrari and matching ahead .interesting the Honda looks much competitive at the end of 2015 compared to Renault than at the beginning of 2017 no wonder Mclaren lost Hope

Wouter
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Wouter » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:27 pm

Bill wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:57 pm
According to Honda the goal of this season was to match Mercedes and they say it have been achieved. But looking at that graph it's close but no their yet unless Honda thinks they have a better Ers unit and as a package they can match Mercedes.
This was before Suzuka where they had the new fuel. So yes, they are matching Mercedes now with the new fuel.

aran.vtec
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by aran.vtec » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:58 pm

Bill wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:57 pm
According to Honda the goal of this season was to match Mercedes and they say it have been achieved. But looking at that graph it's close but no their yet unless Honda thinks they have a better Ers unit and as a package they can match Mercedes. Mercedes and Ferrari looks about equal despite claims Ferrari and matching ahead .interesting the Honda looks much competitive at the end of 2015 compared to Renault than at the beginning of 2017 no wonder Mclaren lost Hope
2015 was bad first year back in F1 but made some solid progress 2016 engine had potential but development was held back by the token system.

2017 ya well that was a disaster from Honda and Mclarens side

2018 ended of strong with the spec3.

TNTHead
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by TNTHead » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:15 pm

The graph also shows that the gain over the winter 2018/2019 is a smaller step than this years spec2/3 to spec4 with new fuel. As far as we can conclude anything from such a graph without a quantitative scale...

We then might be surprised at one of the coming tracks, if RB hits the sweet spot with the tyres, they might be closer than we think. Just hoping :)