Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Snorked
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:06 am
LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:17 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:59 am
The power is now on par with Mercedes in qualifying? Or is it because of altitude?
Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.
No, high altitude performance comes from the ICE alone not the electrical side coz the high altitude has thinner air which favours engines with larger Turbo (which Honda has).
Have there been any photos of the Honda turbo? I remember seeing a spy shot of the Mercedes one in their thread earlier this season.

Mark Hughes in his Mexico GP report said Honda run a smaller turbo than Mercedes:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Honda, like the Renault, uses a turbo smaller than that of the Mercedes, one which can more easily compensate for the thinner air by spinning faster to further compress the thinner air. At its lower homologated burst point speed, the Mercedes turbo is not quite compensating fully for that 25 per cent reduction in air density.

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siskue2005
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Snorked wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:04 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:06 am
LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:17 am


Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.
No, high altitude performance comes from the ICE alone not the electrical side coz the high altitude has thinner air which favours engines with larger Turbo (which Honda has).
Have there been any photos of the Honda turbo? I remember seeing a spy shot of the Mercedes one in their thread earlier this season.

Mark Hughes in his Mexico GP report said Honda run a smaller turbo than Mercedes:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Honda, like the Renault, uses a turbo smaller than that of the Mercedes, one which can more easily compensate for the thinner air by spinning faster to further compress the thinner air. At its lower homologated burst point speed, the Mercedes turbo is not quite compensating fully for that 25 per cent reduction in air density.
Thank you for correcting... i made a mistake there :oops: got it mixed up

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Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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That makes perfect sense. Ho pin Tung explained exactly the same in the Mexico weekend.ho pin is very knowledgable on technical field.

The more efficient the ICE is the BIGGER a turbo it allows for. Merc (and Ferrari) still have more efficient ice than Honda and Renault. Thus allowing them bigger turbo’s, more power (at lower altitude, closing top speeds).

At hight you then have a advantage from your smaller turbo.
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Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news

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siskue2005
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.

kfrantzios
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bill wrote:Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news
The optest method gives fairly accurate measurements...

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Capharol
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:45 pm
Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.
uppppssss :lol:
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Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tanabe said a couple of months ago that spec 3 they worked on the turbo to make it efficient at high altitude so it to be working,so Honda should get the credits they deserve.Renault with big turbo have no car in the top 10 and were 0.5 tenth slower last year with Rbr. So some theories are bogus. Shape of turbo and speed also affect its performance.

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Capharol
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:56 pm
Tanabe said a couple of months ago that spec 3 they worked on the turbo to make it efficient at high altitude so it to be working,so Honda should get the credits they deserve.Renault with big turbo have no car in the top 10 and were 0.5 tenth slower last year with Rbr. So some theories are bogus. Shape of turbo and speed also affect its performance.
and your isn't correct either .... because why is TR with the same Engine 1.3s behind the RB ?
in general it all comes to three things, Chassis, Engine and Driver
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
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Bill
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Off course we know that but the topic in these thread it's all about engines

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Sieper
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bill, Honda are doing a great job, but they can even improve further and I think they are doing just that.
Maybe, just maybe, next year finally a RBR with Honda PU that can fight everywhere. First time I am really starting to believe it might be possible.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:17 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:59 am
The power is now on par with Mercedes in qualifying? Or is it because of altitude?
Mercedes engineers told that they believe that Honda is strong in high altitudes which shows that they have advantages on electrical side.
James now said it is the compressor design.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:45 pm
Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:39 pm
Nobody has ever measured the size of turbo on those pu to compare them so stop spreading fake news
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... rix-report
The Mark hughes articles mentions it from reliable sources.
According to James its the opposite. Mercedes would need a bigger compressor wheel to be effective at higher altitudes. He said a bigger part would be needed.

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izzy
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:02 pm
According to James its the opposite. Mercedes would need a bigger compressor wheel to be effective at higher altitudes. He said a bigger part would be needed.
yes i saw that. I suppose one of them writes about F1 and one of them does F1 :)

NL_Fer
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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All turbo’s are limited to 120000 rpm by Fia rule. A smaller turbo needs a higher average rpm, so less headroom to increase in thin air.

Honda is on par with Mercedes now, but the Redbull chassis works better on these high altitude tracks. Allot of Topspeed is coming from the faster corner speed in turn 12.