Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
gandharva
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Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:24 am

Haven't seen a thread for it, so let's make one.

2015 stats:
- lacks ~100 bhp to mercedes (rumors)
- bad driveability (looks like this has improved in the first 3 races)
- bad reliability

Some pics of 2015 engine:

Image

Image

Jolle
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Jolle » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:06 am

I agree that the engines deserve their own topic!

By the way, the last two pics are from the same side of the engine, the second from the bottom is mirrored.

Jordan44
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Jordan44 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:12 am

Renault engine was quite reliable towards the end of last season. Especially for Red Bull, they definitely got on top of it.

I just don't understand how they've got it so wrong. They supposedly concentrated on reliability in winter testing and have gone backwards. So far they're even more unreliable than the start of last season!

They appear to have gained little time over the winter. So, what have those engineers actually been doing....

I can understand Red Bull's frustration but I don't agree with them being so public about it. But Renault really are stuffed.

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by toraabe » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:48 am

Well according to http://f1-insider.com/red-bull-renault- ... h-technik/
Renault lacks 80 hp to Merc / Ferrari engines in race trim.
In quali trim another 30 hp down due to a „Free-Load-System“ that both Merc and Ferrari are using.
To be honest, this is more than depressive to Renault.
If you look at Riccardo to manage 7. grid with 110 hp down still proves that the RB11 is on level with Merc and Ferrari when it comes to chassi.
Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.

F1NAC
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by F1NAC » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:02 pm

toraabe wrote: Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, .
Ferrari doesn't have Merc innovated split turbo concept. They have Compressor and turbo on one side of the engine and MGU H inside V

Silent Storm
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by Silent Storm » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:03 pm

toraabe wrote:Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.
Ferrari does not have the split turbo like Mercedes. Ferrari changed from [turbine-MGUH-compressor] to [turbine-compressor-MGU-H] like last years Renault PU. The split turbo of Mercedes PU is not a silver bullet. Even if Renault changes it to split turbo it won't give them 80HP.
There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.

hurril
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by hurril » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:29 pm

What is a „Free-Load-System“?

turbof1
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by turbof1 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:33 pm

Guys, I'll only allow such a topic on the base that it's not abused for more ranting on the issues it has. Strictly technical please. I'll remove the parts not comforming later on.
#AeroFrodo

ME4ME
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by ME4ME » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:16 pm

Before the Chineese GP:

Traffin:
Performance was likewise an improvement in Malaysia, although we did keep some in reserve to safeguard reliability.

Now we are getting more confident in this area we can afford to be more aggressive and we should see better results on the straights, with a higher top speed.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... &q=renault

After the GP:

Abiteboul:
We knew we had this reliability risk above our heads," he told reporters in China.

Obviously it struck today, not the best day.

We knew it was a weakness so there was a plan in place. We need to make sure the plan is good enough for the size of the issues we had today, and whether it can be addressed fairly quickly.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118479

:roll:

Not wanting to start a rant or anything, just wondering were things went wrong. Anything known about which parts failed?

hurril
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by hurril » Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:30 pm

There are claims that the 2015 PU has a lot more power - can this be seen in lap times?

toraabe
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by toraabe » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:48 pm

Silent Storm wrote:
toraabe wrote:Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.
Ferrari does not have the split turbo like Mercedes. Ferrari changed from [turbine-MGUH-compressor] to [turbine-compressor-MGU-H] like last years Renault PU. The split turbo of Mercedes PU is not a silver bullet. Even if Renault changes it to split turbo it won't give them 80HP.
OK that was new to me.. well.. But if you look at the pipe from the compressor to the intercooler it seems not to be isolated.
The exhaust pipes direct under will generate a lot of heat so why not heatshield between ?

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:48 pm

They have more power but not enough control over it.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

mrluke
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by mrluke » Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:32 pm

toraabe wrote:Well according to http://f1-insider.com/red-bull-renault- ... h-technik/
Renault lacks 80 hp to Merc / Ferrari engines in race trim.
In quali trim another 30 hp down due to a „Free-Load-System“ that both Merc and Ferrari are using.
To be honest, this is more than depressive to Renault.
If you look at Riccardo to manage 7. grid with 110 hp down still proves that the RB11 is on level with Merc and Ferrari when it comes to chassi.
Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.
Red bull were made to look very ordinary by Torro Rosso, cant support that RB11 is equal chassis with Merc and Ferrari.

Riccardo may have been 7th on the grid but a long long way from pole.

gandharva
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by gandharva » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:29 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:They have more power but not enough control over it.
It also think this is their actual problem. German media had reports that the engine shows 40 bhp more power on dyno then in car. And they claim it is a big software issue. This imho makes sense, because otherwise they would have gained nearly nothing over the winter from all the hardware upgrades.

R_Redding
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Re: Renault V6 Power Unit

Post by R_Redding » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:47 pm

hurril wrote:What is a „Free-Load-System“?

It is a reference to the control scheme used by Ferrari in late 2013 data, derived by ... and mentioned in the lectures by Prof Linbeer ,found and presented originally ...by Gordon McCabe.

http://mccabism.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/ ... raris.html

Taken as read.... It takes 60kW to drive the compressor , so if you drive the compressor with battery energy and run the ICE with the wastegate open you get a net gain of 20kW.

Image

Rob
Last edited by R_Redding on Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.