Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
hurril
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by hurril » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:19 pm

ispano6 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:12 pm
I'd be super surprised if Renault doesn't have teething problems with their new engine architecture. We'll soon see how much know-how Marcin Budowski took with him. He claims what he knows is of no value or already banned, but when only your power steering is the same, you know something is up. He should have been on leave until the next Formula change. In any case, any progress from this team will be looked at with raised eyebrows and skeptisim.
What would such a banned aspect be?

ispano6
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by ispano6 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:41 pm

hurril wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:19 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:12 pm
I'd be super surprised if Renault doesn't have teething problems with their new engine architecture. We'll soon see how much know-how Marcin Budowski took with him. He claims what he knows is of no value or already banned, but when only your power steering is the same, you know something is up. He should have been on leave until the next Formula change. In any case, any progress from this team will be looked at with raised eyebrows and skeptisim.
What would such a banned aspect be?
He was quoted as saying banned suspension so I would assume FRICS, but he knows way more about rivals cars and I presume PU integration details as well. Otherwise there would not have been objections voiced.

I'll move any further comments regarding this to the car threads since its not directly PU related (so far as we are let on to know)...

saviour stivala
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:50 pm

Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:37 pm
Blackout wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:42 pm
Found a rear view of the 2017 engine displayed at the Paris motor show.
Exhausts look fake (no race exhausts) but turbo might be the real one. Twin entry turbine
https://servimg.com/view/14795526/2341
Aren’t all four power units turbocharger turbine scroll twin entry?. or better put, which of the four power units uses a single entry turbocharger turbine scroll?.
Renault used a single entry turbine from 2014 until... I dont know
'Renault used a single entry turbine in 2014?'. I didn't knw that.

Blackout
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:20 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:53 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:37 pm

Aren’t all four power units turbocharger turbine scroll twin entry?. or better put, which of the four power units uses a single entry turbocharger turbine scroll?.
Renault used a single entry turbine from 2014 until... I dont know
It was always twin scroll. You may have seen a single flange turbine, but it still has two entries in it. It would be very foolish to use a single entry turbine for a six cylinder engine.
saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:50 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:37 pm


Aren’t all four power units turbocharger turbine scroll twin entry?. or better put, which of the four power units uses a single entry turbocharger turbine scroll?.
Renault used a single entry turbine from 2014 until... I dont know
'Renault used a single entry turbine in 2014?'. I didn't knw that.
The single entry was a 2in1 entry, which makes it a single entry :mrgreen: . The two final manifolds merge just before entering the turbine whereas the Merceeds and Honda turbine have two separate and opposed entries.
Yes it is a twin scroll and looks like one
Image
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:52 pm

Blackout wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:20 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:53 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 am

Renault used a single entry turbine from 2014 until... I dont know
It was always twin scroll. You may have seen a single flange turbine, but it still has two entries in it. It would be very foolish to use a single entry turbine for a six cylinder engine.
saviour stivala wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:50 pm
Blackout wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:52 am

Renault used a single entry turbine from 2014 until... I dont know
'Renault used a single entry turbine in 2014?'. I didn't knw that.
The single entry was a 2in1 entry, which makes it a single entry :mrgreen: . The two final manifolds merge just before entering the turbine whereas the Merceeds and Honda turbine have two separate and opposed entries.
Yes it is a twin scroll and looks like one
How do you define an entry to the turbine wheel? That is where you and I differ.

For me a twin scroll by function is automatically two entries. The "opposed entry" is for packaging convenience but it is functionally the same. So when you say single entry you misrepresent how twin (or even double) entry turbines designed to function.

The photos you showed me still scream twin entry.

I kindly advise you to look up "Twin-entry" Turbo and see what you find. "Double entry" is also interesting.
The portion of the turbine wheel the entry impinges on determines "twin" or "double" entry.
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godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:07 am

Can't you just be thankful for the insightful pictures?
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Blackout
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blackout » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:49 am

Thanks toTechf1 and Screwcaptain and especially @kevts
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17679&start=345

You're right Platinum. But how should we call/differentiate these two turbines? single flange / twin flange?

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Tommy Cookers » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:51 pm

does the L53 merge section have a divider ?

gruntguru
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gruntguru » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:07 pm

It looks like there is no divider so making it a single scroll turbine housing. A true twin scroll housing keeps the two exhaust streams separate all the way to the tips of the turbine blades.

Merging the streams late in the housing, at relatively high velocity is perhaps a halfway solution which would preserve some of the blowdown energy but not as effectively as a twin scroll.
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Morteza » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:40 am

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

PABLOEING
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PABLOEING » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 am

According to BBC, Renault for the winter +27 hp in race and +50 hp in qualifying.

Ground Effect
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:08 pm

PABLOEING wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 am
According to BBC, Renault for the winter +27 hp in race and +50 hp in qualifying.
Link please?
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

Ground Effect
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:43 pm

PABLOEING wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 am
According to BBC, Renault for the winter +27 hp in race and +50 hp in qualifying.
Found it by the way....

"The grapevine suggests Renault have found 35kw (46bhp) gain in qualifying trim and 20kw (27bhp) in the race. If so, this would put them close to the level Mercedes and Ferrari were at in 2018, although no-one thinks the top two won't find more performance over the winter."
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

gandharva
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by gandharva » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:05 pm

So pure speculation as no official staff has been quoted in that article.

If I remember correctly the best Renault has ever done over a winter was 0.3 seconds per lap. So let's increase it to 0.4 because this winter it was the best ever according to them.

Then realistically we devide it by two (because this is the Abiteboul to reality factor ;)) and here we go:
0.2 seconds gain per lap!

godlameroso
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:30 pm

The gap was over a second, so even if they gained .4 it'll still be .7 seconds off the pace. If McLaren builds the type of chassis they are capable of building it'll be a very nice fight between the two Renault powered teams. Nipping at the heels of Red Bull until the Honda gets up to par.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee