How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
firasf1dream
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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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Cold Fussion wrote:
firasf1dream wrote:
langwadt wrote:
Unless you set it up for inside rear wheel jacking (like on a kart) then you could get away it.
you mean make the inside wheel fly in the air like in the go kart ?
what do you mean by "get away it " ? you mean get away with it like make it work ?

i guess some small RC cars doesn't have a differential but no sliding what do you think about that please ?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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i don't understand the transfer thing, i mean a differential make the inside wheel sun slower than the outside but how there is a transfer ?!

Start here.

Then watch this:


Then this for extra credit:
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

firasf1dream
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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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yes i have seen these before, it's more for balance in the corner and keeping the wheels from sliding
about the torsen alright ! so that's the transfer and it's locked and therefore acts like the go kart right :D ? like there is no differential which will make it overcome the slippery so we can say it's like a half differential maybe
so in that case can i overcome the differential then and keep it like an always locked torsen differential ?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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firasf1dream wrote:
you mean make the inside wheel fly in the air like in the go kart ?
what do you mean by "get away it " ? you mean get away with it like make it work ?

i guess some small RC cars doesn't have a differential but no sliding what do you think about that please ?
Yes I meant the inside rear wheel lifting in the air. What I meant was if you can get this behaviour through a combination of the suspension design (if the rc car is to have it) and chassis design then you will be able to get away without having a differential and lots of sliding.

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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Cold Fussion wrote:
firasf1dream wrote:
you mean make the inside wheel fly in the air like in the go kart ?
what do you mean by "get away it " ? you mean get away with it like make it work ?

i guess some small RC cars doesn't have a differential but no sliding what do you think about that please ?
Yes I meant the inside rear wheel lifting in the air. What I meant was if you can get this behaviour through a combination of the suspension design (if the rc car is to have it) and chassis design then you will be able to get away without having a differential and lots of sliding.
well the suspension will be similar to F1 suspension 95% except the joints i guess but i tried to search for video about this behavior in go kart couldn't find any maybe you help me with that ? maybe the word i used weren't straight forward

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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I don't think you guys are right about the F1 diffs AT ALL. They are NOTHING like a regular road car.

AFAIK, they are hydraulically operated clutch-patch units that allow for various locking behavior on corner entry, mid-corner (neutral), and corner exit. Some drivers change the diff setting from corner to corner to increase or decrease braking stability.

From an older article:
The FIA allows the use of these devices provided that their Characteristics are fixed once the car is out on the track.
A Moog electrohydraulyc valve (from RaceCar-Engineering, Charles Armstrong Wilson, 2008) will constantly adjust the friction between the two shafts around the track to maximize the performance of the car dependent on what characteristics have been entered into the on-board computer.

The Moog valve opens and closes depending on what the software is telling it to do, but the valve must work to the same set of conditions that are pre-programmed whilst the car is in the pits. This means that the driver cannot actually alter the characteristics of the differential due to a change in tracks conditions for instance, which was allowed in the days of the many driver aids around 1993.

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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afaik
the driver has to choose in real time from a limited number of programmed pre-settings (of the clutchpack friction)
typically open diff on corner entry and substantial slip limiting friction (eg locked) on exit
presumably, in principle at least, this sort of functionality exists in some road cars
(and better functionality/performance exists in some other road cars ?)

btw - how can any characteristic other than open diff be described as neutral ?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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tuj wrote:I don't think you guys are right about the F1 diffs AT ALL. They are NOTHING like a regular road car.

AFAIK, they are hydraulically operated clutch-patch units that allow for various locking behavior on corner entry, mid-corner (neutral), and corner exit. Some drivers change the diff setting from corner to corner to increase or decrease braking stability.

From an older article:
The FIA allows the use of these devices provided that their Characteristics are fixed once the car is out on the track.
A Moog electrohydraulyc valve (from RaceCar-Engineering, Charles Armstrong Wilson, 2008) will constantly adjust the friction between the two shafts around the track to maximize the performance of the car dependent on what characteristics have been entered into the on-board computer.

The Moog valve opens and closes depending on what the software is telling it to do, but the valve must work to the same set of conditions that are pre-programmed whilst the car is in the pits. This means that the driver cannot actually alter the characteristics of the differential due to a change in tracks conditions for instance, which was allowed in the days of the many driver aids around 1993.
i am now literally confused ! now which one is the right answer ? and does the rear wheels keep the same rotation's speed or not ? if the diff locks then the car should make an oversteer no ? by having 2 wheel at the same speed and one that slides

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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OK confusion here:

1. Differential is anything that allows two output shafts to turn at different speeds than each-other.
2. An OPEN differential is exactly as above, nothing more.
3. A LOCKING differential or LIMITED SLIP uses some mechanism to transfer torque to the gripping wheel.

Cold Fussion
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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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tuj wrote:OK confusion here:

1. Differential is anything that allows two output shafts to turn at different speeds than each-other.
2. An OPEN differential is exactly as above, nothing more.
3. A LOCKING differential or LIMITED SLIP uses some mechanism to transfer torque to the gripping wheel.
Is it really correct to use the term locking differential interchangeably with limited slip differential? Do all limited slip differentials allow for a total lock condition?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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No, all limited slips do not allow for fully locked conditions, in fact, most don't. A conventional Torsen is I believe at best 50% transfer. Quaife is somewhere around 60-70%.

The only fully locking diffs I know of are called Detroit Lockers and they are only used in drag racing.

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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tuj wrote:OK confusion here:

1. Differential is anything that allows two output shafts to turn at different speeds than each-other.
2. An OPEN differential is exactly as above, nothing more.
3. A LOCKING differential or LIMITED SLIP uses some mechanism to transfer torque to the gripping wheel.
ok that i know ! but what i need to know is related to F1, about the torsen differential as i could understand it gives the same result as a go kart which is without differential with 2 rear tyres turning at same speed always, am i right ?
a locking differential is like there is no differential same as in go kart right ?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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sigh we seem to be going in circles.

A go-kart has no differential; it turns by slipping the rear wheels.
A *fully locked 100%* differential is the equivalent of a go-kart axle.
A Torsen is nothing like a go-kart at all.

You asked about F1. F1 uses a hydraulic plate system for their differential. It is not fully locking. It is, more or less, limited-slip.

firasf1dream
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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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tuj wrote:sigh we seem to be going in circles.

A go-kart has no differential; it turns by slipping the rear wheels.
A *fully locked 100%* differential is the equivalent of a go-kart axle.
A Torsen is nothing like a go-kart at all.

You asked about F1. F1 uses a hydraulic plate system for their differential. It is not fully locking. It is, more or less, limited-slip.
ok so not 100% good that's a start, so when a F1 car is turning in a corner it has the rear wheels turning at different speeds each one ? does they ever lock it fully ? if they do the car will have understeer ? will slide ?

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Re: How does an F1 differential work ? same as normal car ?

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If the rear wheels are forced into too much locking in corner entry, the car will generally understeer or perhaps snap-oversteer after understeering. If the locking occurs at corner exit, it is likely to overwhelm both rear tires with power and lead to power oversteer.