Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Marble
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Marble » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:58 pm

ME4ME wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Thanks for sharing Marble.
Welcome !
I thought it was worth the read, even though in French. First part here :

https://blog.autoplus.fr/moncet/2019/01 ... -hamilton/

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:53 pm

Marble wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:58 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Thanks for sharing Marble.
Welcome !
I thought it was worth the read, even though in French. First part here :

https://blog.autoplus.fr/moncet/2019/01 ... -hamilton/
I thought you surely lost your marbles when you posted it, but you're lucky there is google translate.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

- Ferrari chairman Sergio Marchionne

F1NAC
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by F1NAC » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:30 pm

Didn't know that Mahle also have close collaboration with Mercedes as well
Translation: "The Mercedes W10 has a newly designed power unit that is affected by five years of success in the F1 world. Mercedes has invested heavily on materials and has decided on a new piston that was developed in collaboration with the Mahle.

The engineers directed by Andy Cowell have not made revolutions, but have put to good use the experiences of the hybrid era, aware that the 6-cylinder Ferrari has made huge steps forward, snatching the role of the most powerful power unit from Mercedes.

Not only that, but the unity of last year had now reached the limit of development for which the performance growth was not equal to expectations, showing some reliability problems (frequent hydraulic losses) that in the past had never been seen.

The challenge, therefore, was that of new materials: like Ferrari, Mercedes has also developed new alloys from additive manufacturing that have opened important avenues for development.

The increase in performance, in fact, is also linked to greater structural strength and weight reduction, but the Mercedes motorists have worked hard on the combustion chamber deliberating the design of a new piston that was made exclusively for the arrows silver from the Mahle, the German supplier that also collaborates with Ferrari."

rgava
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by rgava » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm

For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.

subcritical71
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:40 pm

rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
To me, Mahle is an engineering company that will work with anyone. At the same time I’m sure they will have to preserve IP between their different customers. So the end solution for each will/can be slightly different. In the industry I am in some of our parts and test stands are in the same buildings as our competitors as there are simply not a lot of places that do what we need. There are firewalls (physical and network) and NDAs in place to prevent competitors from gaining access at what the other is doing. When we rely on one common part manufacturer we do have to realize the manufacturers capability will a lot of time dictate a common process or material for your part creation. It’s how you implement the technology that can make the difference. So for Mahle to be working with multiple teams in F1 they could very will have very similar technologies being used, but they could also have wide variety in their implementation in the PU could be different.

godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Of course every manufacturer uses a different spec combustion chamber so would require pistons that work with each individual design. Probably construction methods are the only thing they have in common, but the pistons themselves must be unique.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

rgava
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by rgava » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:29 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:40 pm
rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
To me, Mahle is an engineering company that will work with anyone. At the same time I’m sure they will have to preserve IP between their different customers. So the end solution for each will/can be slightly different. In the industry I am in some of our parts and test stands are in the same buildings as our competitors as there are simply not a lot of places that do what we need. There are firewalls (physical and network) and NDAs in place to prevent competitors from gaining access at what the other is doing. When we rely on one common part manufacturer we do have to realize the manufacturers capability will a lot of time dictate a common process or material for your part creation. It’s how you implement the technology that can make the difference. So for Mahle to be working with multiple teams in F1 they could very will have very similar technologies being used, but they could also have wide variety in their implementation in the PU could be different.
Don't get me wrong.
I wasn't implying anything in the sense of information flowing between competitors or same design for everyone.

This only means for me that state of the art for this generation of PUs is steel pistons, which is interesting enough.
Only doubt is which pistons technology is Renault using.

godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:45 am

Quite interesting, especially knock on effects with the rest of the power unit, pun probably intended.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Mclarensenna
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mclarensenna » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:49 am

rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
Which pistons do Renault use do you know?
I wonder why Renault is the odd 1 out not using Mahle when both Ferrari and Mercedes have the best PU and both use Mahle?

godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by godlameroso » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:25 am

Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:49 am
rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
Which pistons do Renault use do you know?
I wonder why Renault is the odd 1 out not using Mahle when both Ferrari and Mercedes have the best PU and both use Mahle?
They have Budkowski, I'm sure they know at the very least.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Morteza
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Morteza » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:53 am

How the 2019 power unit sounds
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

rgava
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by rgava » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:01 pm

Mclarensenna wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:49 am
rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
Which pistons do Renault use do you know?
I wonder why Renault is the odd 1 out not using Mahle when both Ferrari and Mercedes have the best PU and both use Mahle?
I don't know for Renault.

Big Tea
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Big Tea » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:11 pm

rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:29 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:40 pm
rgava wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:10 pm
For the moment, 3 out of 4 with Mahle pistons. Ferrari and Honda are using their pistons also.
To me, Mahle is an engineering company that will work with anyone. At the same time I’m sure they will have to preserve IP between their different customers. So the end solution for each will/can be slightly different. In the industry I am in some of our parts and test stands are in the same buildings as our competitors as there are simply not a lot of places that do what we need. There are firewalls (physical and network) and NDAs in place to prevent competitors from gaining access at what the other is doing. When we rely on one common part manufacturer we do have to realize the manufacturers capability will a lot of time dictate a common process or material for your part creation. It’s how you implement the technology that can make the difference. So for Mahle to be working with multiple teams in F1 they could very will have very similar technologies being used, but they could also have wide variety in their implementation in the PU could be different.
Don't get me wrong.
I wasn't implying anything in the sense of information flowing between competitors or same design for everyone.

This only means for me that state of the art for this generation of PUs is steel pistons, which is interesting enough.
Only doubt is which pistons technology is Renault using.
The company I worked for did lots of testing for many different aerospace companies, lots of it leading edge.
We, the actual people doing it, did not know anything other than a reference number. There was absolutely no way to tie an item back to a company let alone a unit.

Due to the nature of the work, all entry was badge only and only equipment in that section used. No interaction between sections, even computers. The whole area was covered by CCTV from waaaay back when it was a new thing.

I think they can be reasonably confident on one is going to post a picture or details of the product, and workers in this sort of place accept it.
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

Mudflap
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mudflap » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:38 pm

Mercedes make their own pistons and have been doing so for a very long time.
They do have a partnership with Mahle but it's mostly for bearings.
How much TQ does it make though?

Blaze1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Blaze1 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:34 pm

Image