Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
Fair gains...
Ferrari claiming half a second on their bogey tracks in the simulator. Uderstandable.
So this seems to be about the level of of improvements... Three tenths to half a second over last year?

Btw. Honda proved out 5000km on the dyno! Ominous!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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izzy wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:40 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:39 pm
All I remember was that VB got a hybrid 2020 spec which didn't get to race due to a pneumatic failure in practice I think.

This time last year they were in a much tougher spot and didn't actually manage to bring any performance over the winter.
yes it was a pneumatic leak straight away, so yes good point probably something completely different. It's just that it sounds like now everything depends on everything: they have new coatings to run hotter, they've said the aluminium is degrading with it, the radiators and aero package seem to depend on hotter coolant with flowing less air, and it's failing consistently apparently. So if they have to run cooler after all, they might have to turn it down quite a lot

So let's hope they just go round and round on Wednesday! i'll be watching :pray:
Ha. With the aluminum that Normal fatigue both thermal and physical. The strength reduces witb temperature. Things like creep also set in.
This tell you the liners are aluminum. I was not convinced they were, i was saying iron has better properties, but i seems they are using aluminum with some low friction coating indeed. Granted that aluminum alloy is as strong as iron at normal temperatures but very likely weakens faster.

saviour stivala
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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While ‘steel’ cylinder liners use in present F1 power unit was being pushed-out. I never had any doubt that (A) No cylinder ‘liners’ are used in present FI power unit. (B) That the upper block piston bore is cast as one (aluminium) with said block. That is as stiff a block they can achieve.

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:51 pm
Ha. With the aluminum that Normal fatigue both thermal and physical. The strength reduces witb temperature. Things like creep also set in.
This tell you the liners are aluminum. I was not convinced they were, i was saying iron has better properties, but i seems they are using aluminum with some low friction coating indeed. Granted that aluminum alloy is as strong as iron at normal temperatures but very likely weakens faster.
yes, then if the bore is coated aluminium the surface temperature will be a lot higher than the coolant temperature again. Tho they can do aluminium/iron alloys can't they, with a bit of nickel

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:44 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
Fair gains...
Ferrari claiming half a second on their bogey tracks in the simulator. Uderstandable.
So this seems to be about the level of of improvements... Three tenths to half a second over last year?

Btw. Honda proved out 5000km on the dyno! Ominous!
Different gains going on here.

Mudflap was referring to a gain of over 3 tenths just from the PU side of the equation alone. We don't know what anticipated gains are on the chassis-side, for Merc.

I'm guessing the Ferrari claim of 5 tenths quicker at Hungary was referring to the overall package (chassis + PU).

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:45 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:44 pm
Mudflap wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:34 pm
Today Brixworth have held a company wide meeting to present the new power unit.

Rumours are 20 hp up from last season and over 3 tenths quicker from just the engine (of which almost 1 tenth from the cooling inovations that allow the car to run more closed).

All their prove out engines have failed before achieving the target mileage and they are now counting on the engines returning from Barcelona at the end of the test to be used for prove out.
Fair gains...
Ferrari claiming half a second on their bogey tracks in the simulator. Uderstandable.
So this seems to be about the level of of improvements... Three tenths to half a second over last year?

Btw. Honda proved out 5000km on the dyno! Ominous!
Different gains going on here.

Mudflap was referring to a gain of over 3 tenths just from the PU side of the equation alone. We don't know what anticipated gains are on the chassis-side, for Merc.

I'm guessing the Ferrari claim of 5 tenths quicker at Hungary was referring to the overall package (chassis + PU).
.3 from the engine .3 from the chassis for a .6 gain or a 14.8 at Barcelona?
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:01 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:45 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:44 pm


Fair gains...
Ferrari claiming half a second on their bogey tracks in the simulator. Uderstandable.
So this seems to be about the level of of improvements... Three tenths to half a second over last year?

Btw. Honda proved out 5000km on the dyno! Ominous!
Different gains going on here.

Mudflap was referring to a gain of over 3 tenths just from the PU side of the equation alone. We don't know what anticipated gains are on the chassis-side, for Merc.

I'm guessing the Ferrari claim of 5 tenths quicker at Hungary was referring to the overall package (chassis + PU).
.3 from the engine .3 from the chassis for a .6 gain or a 14.8 at Barcelona?
Mercedes had an in-season barge board update in Barcelona in '19 that was worth 3 tenths alone. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that they'll have found more than 3 tenths on the chassis side over the entirety of the winter. Changes to the side pod packaging can unlock substantial chunks of performance, as evidenced by the performance of the second iteration of the W10 last year in week 2 of testing.

This discussion is better suited for the chassis thread, however.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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izzy wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:07 pm
Tho they can do aluminium/iron alloys can't they, with a bit of nickel
That's what I was hinting at earlier. aluminium/iron alloys exist, but they aren't very common.
160 96 91 6

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:09 am
izzy wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:07 pm
Tho they can do aluminium/iron alloys can't they, with a bit of nickel
That's what I was hinting at earlier. aluminium/iron alloys exist, but they aren't very common.
Yes, it'd be nice to know what alloy they are using wouldn't it

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:04 pm
If I had to guess What Mercedes work on was tweaks to the alloy they used. Didn't they bring in a materials expert over the winter?
Oh they did didn't they! So hopefully...

dans79
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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izzy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:56 am
dans79 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:09 am
izzy wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:07 pm
Tho they can do aluminium/iron alloys can't they, with a bit of nickel
That's what I was hinting at earlier. aluminium/iron alloys exist, but they aren't very common.
Yes, it'd be nice to know what alloy they are using wouldn't it

take a look at some of these.

https://www.amt-advanced-materials-tech ... mperature/
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izzy
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:30 pm
take a look at some of these.

https://www.amt-advanced-materials-tech ... mperature/
awesome, 350 degrees, iirc from what @gruntguru and @mudlfap were posting that should do even on the cylinder walls

Bill
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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lio007
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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2020-PU in the Williams and Merc:
Image
Image
by AMuS

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De Jokke
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Hi, nobody worried about the merc pu issues?
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!