CNG in F1

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Zynerji
Zynerji
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

CNG in F1

Any opinions about moving the next generation of F1 engines to the alternative fuel, Compressed Natural Gas?

I ask if this method is feasible to get safe refueling back, while using this as a means to require multiple pit stops, regardress of tyre life.

The idea would be that the car would have 2 cylindrical openings in a V shape right behind the roll hoop that would hold twist- lock CNG canisters.

The size of these could be adjusted to be sure that 2 changes per race would be necessary.

Would any of you Mathmetizers care to share your thoughts on feasibility? I don't know the energy densities of the comparative fuels to calculate the approximate size of the tanks.

Obviously, this is a dumb question if it would take a tanker truck worth of CNG to finish a race... So your educated input is much appreciated!

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am

Re: CNG in F1

I'm not sure the idea of compressed gas cylinders installed high up and behind the drivers head is a good idea in a race car that will at some point crash.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Zynerji
Zynerji
78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: CNG in F1

Giblet wrote:I'm not sure the idea of compressed gas cylinders installed high up and behind the drivers head is a good idea in a race car that will at some point crash.
Why? They have more fuel on board now than with these pods. It's all about the container.

Can anyone equate how much CNG would be equal to the current 100kg gasoline by volume? Is it roughly 1:1?

bar555
bar555
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Greece - Athens

Re: CNG in F1

Gases can be compressed easily, so the volume of the tank depends highly on the pressure and temperature. For instance CNG on high pressure (more than 200 atm) and on low temperature reduce its volume significantly.
Future is like walking into past......

Blog : http://formula1techandart.wordpress.com/

bar555
bar555
11
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Greece - Athens

Re: CNG in F1

Zynerji wrote:
Giblet wrote:I'm not sure the idea of compressed gas cylinders installed high up and behind the drivers head is a good idea in a race car that will at some point crash.
Why? They have more fuel on board now than with these pods. It's all about the container.

Can anyone equate how much CNG would be equal to the current 100kg gasoline by volume? Is it roughly 1:1?

check this link friend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_ ... equivalent
Future is like walking into past......

Blog : http://formula1techandart.wordpress.com/

Giblet
Giblet
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:47 am

Re: CNG in F1

Zynerji wrote:
Giblet wrote:I'm not sure the idea of compressed gas cylinders installed high up and behind the drivers head is a good idea in a race car that will at some point crash.
Why? They have more fuel on board now than with these pods. It's all about the container.

Can anyone equate how much CNG would be equal to the current 100kg gasoline by volume? Is it roughly 1:1?
It'snot about the volume of fuel, its about it being pressurized. That means that your regulation into engine becomes a weak point, and if there is a fire we will be putting track workers and drivers in a position where there is pressurized canisters of fuel.

Fuel cells are bladders in a rigid structure. They are essentially invincible. Even when torn from the vehicle only fuel in the outfeed hose is released on track. It self seals.

NOt just that, but storage. Remember Williams garage fire? What about an impact from a rolled car on something?

It just seems like once you introduce pressurized canisters (being put in hastily at a pit stop) your F1 car becoming a large exploding bomb is no longer zero.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

Zynerji
Zynerji
78
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: CNG in F1

While I don't necessarily disagree, I would say these are engineering challenges more than single point failures.

After reading your fantastic Wiki link, maybe LNG is better for this idea. Liquid density, and ambient pressure. The canister just needs to be cooled in the garage before putting it in the car.