2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
bill shoe
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by bill shoe » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:32 am

roon wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:48 pm
Time for some creative thinking, everyone: how does one get Mercedes or Ferrari to sell engines to Red Bull?
RB needs to create a situation where Mercedes are the least used engine on the grid, then RB go to the FIA and say "we don't have an engine, so you need to please force the lowest-supplying engine manufacturer to give us an engine contract next year, and oh that appears to be Mercedes."

This would require RB to get either Williams or Force India to switch to Honda engines, and that in turn would require paying the switching team a monstrous amount of money. Probably easier to simply buy Force India and then sign the team up to a dog of a contract with Honda.

roon
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by roon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:52 am

Is the situation an admittance that Ferrari and Mercedes are the only organizations in the world that can produce a competitive power unit that meets the regulations? Perhaps RB need to branch out and pay a bunch of money to another OEM, or look outside of the automotive industry.

dren
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by dren » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:53 pm

HPD wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:45 pm
Marko on German Sky: [Asked about PU plans for 2019]:
"We are currently working closely with Honda .... and Toro Rosso [added as an obvious afterthought] ... to make it competitive, we are very pleased with the progress Honda is making and will still make until the beginning of the season. [and some more about great faciliities and possibilities of Honda]"
Financially, this is the best route forward. Honda has already dumped hundreds of millions into the project. RBT can add technical assistance to help Honda improve their unit with minimal investment and reap the packaging benefit of a works team. My guess is Honda will receive assistance on the software side and ERS.
Honda!

JonoNic
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by JonoNic » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 am

Wouldn't RB assisting Honda in 2018 (with access to the Tag Heuer PU too) also help Aston Martin later as they will have access to Honda's trials and error information?

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Always find the gap then use it.

F1NAC
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by F1NAC » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:34 am

JonoNic wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 am
Wouldn't RB assisting Honda in 2018 (with access to the Tag Heuer PU too) also help Aston Martin later as they will have access to Honda's trials and error information?

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They will have as much access to those PU as McLaren had when they were running on Mercs' powerunit

cyclon
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by cyclon » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:38 am

JonoNic wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 am
Wouldn't RB assisting Honda in 2018 (with access to the Tag Heuer PU too) also help Aston Martin later as they will have access to Honda's trials and error information?

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Do you really believe that this year Renault will provide equal engines to RB ?
Your reference is the reason why Renault Team and McLaren will have to the least better engines and technical support!
I loved the iconic McLaren-Honda
But most of all i love McLaren . After all first contact made with M23 that had a Ford Cosworth PU

JonoNic
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by JonoNic » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:54 pm

cyclon wrote:
JonoNic wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 am
Wouldn't RB assisting Honda in 2018 (with access to the Tag Heuer PU too) also help Aston Martin later as they will have access to Honda's trials and error information?

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Do you really believe that this year Renault will provide equal engines to RB ?
Your reference is the reason why Renault Team and McLaren will have to the least better engines and technical support!
I think you misunderstood what i was saying.

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Always find the gap then use it.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:50 am

roon wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Moving toward an engine formula, in hindsight, probably always carried the risk of advantaging the factory teams. Would a return to an aero or chassis biased formula...
F1 today is not "an engine formula", it is most definitely an aero or downforce formula. That is why Ferrari & RBR, on occasion, are able to beat Merc, and are able to always beat the Merc customers who run the same PU as the factory team. That is also why RBR consistently beat the factory Renault team, and why the McLHonda has on occasion beaten the Merc powered Williams.

Downforce dominates everything in F1 & racing.

tmoneyr007
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by tmoneyr007 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:50 am
roon wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Moving toward an engine formula, in hindsight, probably always carried the risk of advantaging the factory teams. Would a return to an aero or chassis biased formula...
F1 today is not "an engine formula", it is most definitely an aero or downforce formula. That is why Ferrari & RBR, on occasion, are able to beat Merc, and are able to always beat the Merc customers who run the same PU as the factory team. That is also why RBR consistently beat the factory Renault team, and why the McLHonda has on occasion beaten the Merc powered Williams.

Downforce dominates everything in F1 & racing.
I disagree, if setup and tires are Equal between Merc, Ferrari and RBR, Merc will walk away 9 out of 10 races due to their PU.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by Zynerji » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:11 pm

cyclon wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:38 am
JonoNic wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:36 am
Wouldn't RB assisting Honda in 2018 (with access to the Tag Heuer PU too) also help Aston Martin later as they will have access to Honda's trials and error information?

Sent from my SM-A700F using Tapatalk
Do you really believe that this year Renault will provide equal engines to RB ?
Your reference is the reason why Renault Team and McLaren will have to the least better engines and technical support!
Don't rules guarantee equal engines, but not software?

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by Jolle » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:23 pm

tmoneyr007 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 pm
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:50 am
roon wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Moving toward an engine formula, in hindsight, probably always carried the risk of advantaging the factory teams. Would a return to an aero or chassis biased formula...
F1 today is not "an engine formula", it is most definitely an aero or downforce formula. That is why Ferrari & RBR, on occasion, are able to beat Merc, and are able to always beat the Merc customers who run the same PU as the factory team. That is also why RBR consistently beat the factory Renault team, and why the McLHonda has on occasion beaten the Merc powered Williams.

Downforce dominates everything in F1 & racing.
I disagree, if setup and tires are Equal between Merc, Ferrari and RBR, Merc will walk away 9 out of 10 races due to their PU.
Apart from a few years when the V8 2.4 was frozen and had a set max rev limiter, the PU/Engine has always be one of the most important parts of a teams succes.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by ENGINE TUNER » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:20 pm

tmoneyr007 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 pm
I disagree, if setup and tires are Equal between Merc, Ferrari and RBR, Merc will walk away 9 out of 10 races due to their PU.
The Merc has a aerodynamically strong and efficient car and that can not be separated from the PU(or the setup). Do you think that their PU magically lost power in the slower tracks last year (Monaco, Hungary, Singapore)? It did not, but the reality was that their PU advantage was overpowered by their lack of total downforce and traction in that speed range. Currently the PU is not the largest performance differentiator in F1, that is still aerodynamics/downforce.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by Jolle » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:47 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:10 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:23 pm
Apart from a few years when the V8 2.4 was frozen and had a set max rev limiter, the PU/Engine has always be one of the most important parts of a teams succes.
And yet customer Merc teams have won a grand total of 0 races in the hybrid Era while Ferrari and RBR, with inferior PUs, have won several each. The Merc chassis/aero is superb and amongst the very best in the field, that gives them a far greater advantage than the PU does.

Downforce and aerodynamic efficiency are a far greater performance differentiator than PUs are currently and that is what makes F1 currently an aerodynamic Formula and other a PU formula.
one of the, not the most important bit. Just the best PU doesn't work and never did. The aero/chassis difference between a top team and a midfield team is bigger then the PU difference.

In the past there were years of Honda domination, from '86 upto 91, then Renault from 92 until 97, etc etc.

nickj1998
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Redbull Powerunit

Post by nickj1998 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Isn't it a possibility that Honda will be able to catch up quite substantially? Since development progress will stagnate at Mercedes and Ferrari, because changes will be less major, and Honda still has more room to play with?

So I don't see why a RBR-Honda deal would be so bad as suggested here.
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