ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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PlatinumZealot
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ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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As the title mentions.

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subcritical71
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Re: ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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hmmm... any ideas where you wanted to go with this topic? It's definitely an interesting subject.

Dual batteries, H size, deployment strategy...?

I'll start off with the obligatory energy flow chart;

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AJI
AJI
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Re: ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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subcritical71 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:46 am
hmmm... any ideas where you wanted to go with this topic...
I think PZ started this thread to try and get general ERS chatter off the other threads, but that horse well and truly bolted years ago...
There's potentially a positive rating bonanza for anyone who successfully turns our collective ERS mind droolings into a single coherent thesis. Not much of an incentive I know, but that's all I'm paying

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henry
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Re: ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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Here’s a thought on dual batteries.

The battery cells themselves rely on a chemical reaction. This reaction has a time constant. If you try to put charge in faster than the reactions can happen you get losses. I’m led to believe that high quality battery management systems provide periods of zero charge/discharge to allow the processes time to complete.

So perhaps it would be possible to dynamically connect up cells in groups (a battery) and then cycle through the groups allowing some cells to rest in each cycle.

During the discussion of Ferrari’s battery system Charlie Whiting talked of the difficulties involved because the batteries were virtual.

Such an approach would potentially reduce the absolute physical capacity of the ES (pSOC) but might improve the efficiency and its performance in handling the regulated 4MJ SOC (which for convenience Interm virtual , VSOC.

The charge/discharge rates for the F1 ES are high, perhaps 3 or 4 times higher than FE for example.

Of course it might be possible to use capacitors, super or otherwise, to help with this.

A final thought. We don’t know what the sample rate is for the ES energy sensor. If it is slow, it might be possible for someone, Ferrari say, to use the storage allowed between the two mandated sensors to help manage the ES state.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

NL_Fer
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Re: ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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Rules say: one (energy)sensor is fitted to the MGU-K. One sensor is fitted to the ES.

Did FIA ever declare that one sensor, really means physically a single sensor?

Than it would stil be a mystery how the FIA would measure energy flow from a dual battery ES.

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henry
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Re: ERS, MGUK / MGUH thread

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NL_Fer wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:49 am
Rules say: one (energy)sensor is fitted to the MGU-K. One sensor is fitted to the ES.

Did FIA ever declare that one sensor, really means physically a single sensor?

Than it would stil be a mystery how the FIA would measure energy flow from a dual battery ES.
We, the public, don’t get to see the details of the sensors used, but the teams are told exactly what they may use.
8.2.2 All control sensors, actuators and FIA monitoring sensors will be specified and homologated by the FIA. Details of the homologation process may be found in the Appendix to the Technical Regulations.

Each and every component of the control system will be sealed and uniquely identified and their identities tracked through their life cycle.

These components and units may not be disassembled or modified in any way and seals and identifiers must remain intact and legible.
The ES is more than a battery, or batteries. The physical cells are connected together by a set of electrical circuitry sometimes referred to as a battery management system. It is this, the BMS, that is connected to the measurement sensor. In a dual battery the BMS will choose which battery is physically connected at any one time, and potentially, as I said above, which cells make up the battery.
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus