F1 Brake Discs

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
wmm
0
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:51 pm
Location: gozo , malta

F1 Brake Discs

Post by wmm » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:59 pm

Technology in F1 is everything and I love it so much, the article below explains how Brake Disc in F1 works. I hope that is interesting for you all F1 Technical fans as I am. I hope that this site continues as it is know because it is so informative on our lovable sport. Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!.


‘When a F1 driver hits the brakes, disc temperature can peak at 1000 degrees centigrade. Small wonder, then, that it can take as many as 1000 sets to see a team through a season.

Spectacular is the word when an F1 car screams along the straight then brakes hard for a tight corner, sending break temperatures soaring to around 1000 degrees centigrade, and making all 4 brake discs glow a dramatic and brilliant red.

The driver lifts off the brakes and the car powers out a corner- and in the few seconds it takes before it’s time to slow down for the next turn, those maltreated discs made of carbon-carbon composite have to cool back to their normal operating temperature of somewhere between 400 and 500 degrees centigrade. So it’s not hard to understand just how important an efficient brake cooling process really is.

As Materials Development Engineer with the McLaren Mercedes team, Dr Jonathan Prichard is ideally qualified to sum up the brake’s function. “It’s purpose is simply to generate torque to be transmitted through the tyres to the road to stop the car. “In the process of generating this torque, tough , you generate significant stresses in the disc’s material, as well as high temperatures that need to be kept under control. As a result, the brake disc has to have a number of cooling features built into it”.

This explains a great deal about a typical brake disc’s shape- and all those cooling holes to keep the operating temperature in check. The vital importance of high temperature performance also determines the choice of materials: the disc is made from the same carbon-carbon composite materials as the brake pads, and by using the same process.

Regulations dictate that the disc has a maximum diameter of 278mm and cannot exceed a thickness of 28mm. As you’d expect, the disc is circular in shape, but it also has 10 holes around its inside edge, to provide mounting points for the bolts from the disc bell. Also on the inside edge are 10 groups of 3 radical cooling holes, to maximize the amount of surface area available for cooling the disc’s core.

“These don’t provide the only cooling though, as air is channeled across one face of the disc via the disc bell and across the other face by a turning device that’s built onto the upright assembly. The other cooling mechanism, of course, is radiation, but the reason that temperature is so vital is that wear is dependent on it. If you keep the brakes cool, the wear rate increases rapidly”.

One statistic that illustrates wear levels is that, in course of an average season, the McLaren Mercedes Team will need between 800 and 1000 sets of 4 discs to see them through.

Operational temperature would typically average around 500 degrees centigrade over the course of a lap, with peaks up to 1000 degrees centigrade when brakes are hit hard.

One get such a peak at Monza’s 1st chicane, then you go around Curva Grande and by the braking point just before the 2nd chicane the temperature ought to have fallen to 400 degrees centigrade.

So now you know why the brake discs can sometimes be seen glowing red hot as a car enters a corner-particularly when the driver is pushing hard. Like everything else in F1, a brake disc’s performance is based strictly on scientific principles, but, in practice, the result looks very much more spectacular.’

akbar21881
0
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 9:49 pm
Location: bristol,uk

Post by akbar21881 » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:10 pm

With this year regulation,do teams need to preserve the brake for the whole weekend?or is it only the engine?

Last year,if I'm not mistaken they were not allowed to change anything after second qualifying.This year run of two qualifying one after another,how long the brake will have to survive then?

Monstrobolaxa
0
User avatar
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:36 pm
Location: Covilhã, Portugal (and sometimes in Évora)

Post by Monstrobolaxa » Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:04 pm

Well....they can change the brake pads and disks without being penalised....at least untill the 2nd qualifying.....after that they cannot change anything.....unless they prove that it it's completly necessary....

aku
0

Post by aku » Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:27 pm

courtasy of McLaren.com :)

rodders
0

Post by rodders » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:24 am

may I ask a question here?

The new Mclaren/mercedes road going $1million sports car uses Ceramic Disks and "BRAKE BY WIRE" concept...

Will this be allowed in F1 ???????

West
0
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:42 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

Post by West » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:42 am

rodders wrote:may I ask a question here?

The new Mclaren/mercedes road going $1million sports car uses Ceramic Disks and "BRAKE BY WIRE" concept...

Will this be allowed in F1 ???????
Mercedes and McLaren don't have a one million dollar car. F1 teams use Carbon fiber discs (maybe some ceramic properties, I don't know) but they aren't fully ceramic, that's for sure. Brake by wire... I don't think it's allowed right now.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

Irvingthien
0
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:40 am

Post by Irvingthien » Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:13 am

The new Mclaren/mercedes road going $1million sports car uses Ceramic Disks and "BRAKE BY WIRE" concept...
Well, if you are mentioning about the ceramic disc brakes on the SLR by Mac and Merc, it really sux, got critised by few magazines and tv shows. The drive by wire sounds good, might replace the age old hydraulics. But if it is costly, it might mot make it to F1.

Scuderia_Russ
0
User avatar
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:24 pm
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

Post by Scuderia_Russ » Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:37 am

There was a guy testing it in England too,said the springs were too stiff and the ceramics stopped the car dead..... but what do you want,the moon on a stick?
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

pyry
0

Post by pyry » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:55 pm

the ceramic disks where not critisized, the manor at how the brake works was critized. how in hells name can any racing fanatic critize a full bred sports car for having too effective brakes? im pretty sure you get use to the brakes after awhile, they do however differ from regular brakes. people dont invest 700k e in a car and complain "this car accelerates too quickly or "this car has too much grip" if you can see my point. and the reason ceramic brakes arnt used in f1 is because they arnt as effective as cf ones, and the reason why cf brakes arnt used in road cars is that they cost a shitload and dont last very long.

Guest
0

Post by Guest » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:14 am

pyry wrote:the ceramic disks where not critisized, the manor at how the brake works was critized. how in hells name can any racing fanatic critize a full bred sports car for having too effective brakes? im pretty sure you get use to the brakes after awhile, they do however differ from regular brakes. people dont invest 700k e in a car and complain "this car accelerates too quickly or "this car has too much grip" if you can see my point. and the reason ceramic brakes arnt used in f1 is because they arnt as effective as cf ones, and the reason why cf brakes arnt used in road cars is that they cost a shitload and dont last very long.
I though carbon fiber brakes weren't used on the road because they're useless in trafficn (operating temperature), aside from the costs.

NickT
2
User avatar
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:47 am
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Post by NickT » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:03 pm

Most of the criticism is not directed to the effectiveness of the brakes or their out right stopping power, its the disconnected feel and lack of driver feedback that have raised the most questions.

As for F1, in my humble opinion there is no way will they fit a system a driver can't feel what is happening!
NickT

archebald23
0
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:59 am

Re: F1 Brake Discs

Post by archebald23 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:11 am

"The high peak temperatures generated by carbon fiber Brake Disc and pad materials can be an issue, however, which is one of the reasons why carbon automotive brake applications have been limited to open wheel configurations, such as those used in Formula One racing. Carbon brake discs also suffer low friction coefficient in cold and damp conditions and therefore are not suitable for production cars."

A clear explanation by an industry expert, which is why carbon fiber brakes aren't used in production of cars.
Last edited by archebald23 on Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

axle
2
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: F1 Brake Discs

Post by axle » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:51 pm

archebald23 wrote:"The high peak temperatures generated by carbon fiber Brake Disc and pad materials can be an issue, however, which is one of the reasons why carbon automotive brake applications have been limited to open wheel configurations, such as those used in Formula One racing. Carbon brake discs also suffer low friction coefficient in cold and damp conditions and therefore are not suitable for production cars."

A clear explanation by an industry expert, which is why carbon fiber brakes aren't used in production of cars.
But Carbon-Composite ones are; Porsche C-GT, Most Ferrari's and most Lambo's are all fitted as standard with CC discs.
- Axle

Belatti
85
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: F1 Brake Discs

Post by Belatti » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:11 pm

Brembo SGL Carbon Ceramic Brakes S.p.A., a fifty-fifty joint venture between Brembo and SGL Group, is a leading company in manufacturing of composite ceramic braking systems for automotive and in research and development for innovative materials.

The carbon/carbon material is being used since 1970’s for braking systems for aerospace vehicles and since 1980’s for the racing world. Since 2000’s, the Carbon Ceramic Material (CCM) is being used in the production of braking systems for sport cars.

The CCM guarantees advantages in terms of performance in dry and wet conditions, weight, comfort, corrosion resistance, high lifetime and technical image.

Applications: All models of Ferrari, Mercedes SLR, Pagani Zonda, GM Corvette ZR1, Aston Martin DBS, Alfa Romeo 8C.
http://www.brembo.com/ENG/Car-Brakes/BSCCB/
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

autogyro
64
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: F1 Brake Discs

Post by autogyro » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 pm

Simple on F1.
Do away with the IC engine and replace it with a large flywheel storage unit.
Then bring back Kers.
Brakes sorted.
Simple innit.