2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Huntresa
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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So they didnt actually show of the engine ?

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dren
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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The MGUH looks fairly small.
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xpensive
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Do take notice of Shell's presence and space here, this engine will clearly not run on the typical tap-fuel,
the fuel limitation rules from 2014 will make it a totally different ball-game obviously.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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techF1LES
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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diemaster wrote:Good video.
its about of 059/3's power unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRu9Zs6NbZk

pics are from the video
http://i.imgur.com/KNN8Czf.jpg

http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/presen ... power-unit
Firstly, big applause to Ferrari PR guys and girls! They enjoy the media coverage for two days and there's still absolutely nothing interesting showed... We know only the name, obviously...

Nice find and great animation, diemaster, but I'm almost completely sure this has nothing to do with actual 059/3 engine and I wouldn't make any conclusions about its layout based on this video...

Most likely, it's only artistic rendition, just like first Renault renders months ago or Mercedes' style mock-up... Ferrari simply ordered a copy of the video in the studio which prepares videos for La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Look at some of their other videos made in the same style...
From 1:27 http://video.gazzetta.it/analisi-tecnic ... 5a6e3a31a3
From 1:04 http://video.gazzetta.it/GAZESPVset3Lot ... 9667fb85b3

That is my two cents. I was said journos in Maranello were shown something different... https://twitter.com/paolofilise/status/ ... 4036875264 https://twitter.com/paolofilise/status/ ... 2358221824
Last edited by techF1LES on Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ringo
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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looks just like the Renault engine.
For Sure!!

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dren
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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The exhaust in that sketch looks to be routed up and over the heads.
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Holm86
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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techF1LES wrote:
diemaster wrote:Good video.
its about of 059/3's power unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRu9Zs6NbZk

pics are from the video
http://i.imgur.com/KNN8Czf.jpg

http://formula1.ferrari.com/news/presen ... power-unit
Firstly, big applause to Ferrari PR guys and girls! They enjoy the media coverage for two days and there's still absolutely nothing interesting showed... We know only the name, obviously...

Nice find and great animation, diemaster, but I'm almost completely sure this has nothing to do with actual 059/3 engine and I wouldn't make any conclusions about its layout based on this video...

Most likely, it's only artistic rendition, just like first Renault renders months ago or Mercedes' style mock-up... Ferrari simply ordered a copy of the video in the studio which prepares videos for La Gazzetta dello Sport.

Look at some of their other videos made in the same style...
From 1:27 http://video.gazzetta.it/analisi-tecnic ... 5a6e3a31a3
From 1:04 http://video.gazzetta.it/GAZESPVset3Lot ... 9667fb85b3

That is my two cents. I was said journos in Maranello were shown something different... https://twitter.com/paolofilise/status/ ... 4036875264

https://twitter.com/paolofilise/status/ ... 2358221824
I think it looks like there is a wastegate. Where you see that plate with an X on it, it looks like another pipe is coming up and connecting to the main exhaust outlet. That pipe I think comes from a wastegate.

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dren
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Also looks like he is showing the MGUH mounted under the turbo. Thought they had to be on the same axis?
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ncassi22
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Really noob question an thoroughly prepared to be laughed out of hear, but is there a way to filter CO2 and other constituents of air to boost the oxygen ratio?

piast9
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ncassi22 wrote:Really noob question an thoroughly prepared to be laughed out of hear, but is there a way to filter CO2 and other constituents of air to boost the oxygen ratio?
Yes, there is one. The principle is the same as in nitrogen generators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_generator. The difference is that what is meant to be waste product in nitrogen generator is the oxygen - enriched air. Too bad that nitrogen generaotrs are huge machines. The one I was using was an installation mounted on 2 by 2 meter platform, weighing half a ton and it produced around 100 liters per minute of nitrogen.

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techF1LES
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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OmniCorse.it
Magneti Marelli 500 bar injector
Edited Google Translation

Among the revolutions in 2014 in Formula 1 there is not only the turbo engine and the adoption of ERS. The internal combustion 1.6-liter 6-cylinder 90° "V" engine also introduces the direct fuel injection. And for the first time petrol engine will use the system with a pressure of 500 bar. The objective is clear: to drastically reduce fuel consumption and emissions. Magneti Marelli has been the Formula 1 sole supplier for years, but next year it will find a competitor, as Mercedes turned to Bosch to take care of this aspect of their engine, ensuring that the exclusive supplier will not share any informations with the others. Ferrari and Renault, however, have remained loyal to the Italian product. We were in the Bologna office of Magneti Marelli, which celebrates 90 years these days and continues to develop electronic systems. We met Andrea Ricci, responsible for this innovation, to find out what are the new features to the injectors.

Regulations allow a supply pressure of 500 bar. It is said you started from the limit value. What is the state of the art?
"We are developing a system that operates at 500 bar. We started right away with the maximum target, because it is an issue on which we work since 2009, so today we have a fairly well-established system. It is also true that there are still some aspects that are not well defined, but we're talking about it with our partners."

From which elements constitutes this injection system for the V6 Turbo?
"There are two main elements: the injector and the pump that can work up to 500 bar. The injector is the most important element because it is what allows you to achieve the performance of the engine in combination with the very ambitious levels of specific consumption. The pump must be a reliable, lightweight and compact device."

How did you develop so innovative F1 injector when there was nothing like it on the market?
"The development consists of several stages. First of all, it was necessary to define the architecture of the injector with the customer to optimize the installation in the cylinder head. It was a complicated matter, because the injector must be in conformity with the other parts of the head. The regulations allow use of only one GDI injector per cylinder."

We want to give the comparison values ​​to fans to figure out what was the extent of the change...
"V8 engine injector weighed 28 grams and reached a pressure of 100 bar, while the V6 turbo weighs over 70 grams because it has to withstand the pressure of 500 bar. The extra weight is mainly due to a more powerful solenoid to allow the pressure and a structure that will withstand higher stresses. In addition, the direct injection nozzle must appear in the combustion chamber, which requires certain length of the injector that also adds to increase in weight."

Once you have defined the specific injector for each customer, what did you work on?
"We focused on the shape of the spray that is critical to charge and combustion optimization. Each manufacturer has developed different characteristics. There are very complex forms of spray thanks to which you specify the target of each jet. The nozzle is really small - about 1 mm in diameter! We have just 80 microns holes. A jet is made up by a variable number of holes depending on the specification - it ranges from six to thirty. You must define where each targets and what percentage of the mass injects, because two or three out of six jets can carry more than others. Each manufacturer has a different philosophy and we work hard to meet their demands."

The power unit should last four races and the life of the injectors follows, although these parts are not subject to regulations limits and they may be replaced at any GP...
"Our mission is to produce injectors capable of lasting for 4,000-5,000 km of the life of an engine. Four or five races, in fact, are not very high cycles. That's why it makes no sense to make an injector for the single race, as the mass-produced injectors are designed to last 160,000 km."

In 2014, also fuel flow will be regulated. Fuel consumption will have high impact on the performance...
"Already today, the V8 engine consumption analysis and race strategy is studied to determine the instantaneous fuel consumption and to control the injectors. It is very important to have stable and consistent jets, because once they have been mapped, it becomes reliable for estimates of consumption. And next year this will be the difference between finishing the race and DNF. In addition, for the reliability you ask for a great precision and stability of operation of the injectors."

Regulations allow a maximum engine speed of 15,000 rpm, but it is said that engineers in the first year will not necessarily exploit that limit. Is it an aspect that affects the injector?
"Yes, temperature affects the injector, as it is mounted in an area where cylinder head can reach 150 degrees. It is an element that lives in a warm place and which generates heat due to the current that passes through. The temperature increases with the increase in the regime. We, however, are set to hold 15,000 rpm and ensure the multi-injection per cycle, but we do not know where the manufacturers are, as they are very jealous of their informations. They only provide the data necessary for the operation of our product. There is no openness to other data. We do not know anything about the operating temperatures and vibrations. Manufacturers do not give us the prospect of the V6 because some processed data might reveal strategic information. The start of the work, in fact, took place in the dark."

Atmospheric V8s were mono-injected, while the V6 Turbo will be able to exploit the multi-jet...
"We have the potential to provide our clients with the multi-jet, thanks to which you can get up to three injections per cycle at lower speed, but I can not say more."
Last edited by techF1LES on Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Lycoming
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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ncassi22 wrote:Really noob question an thoroughly prepared to be laughed out of hear, but is there a way to filter CO2 and other constituents of air to boost the oxygen ratio?
Boosting the ratio of oxygen to... not oxygen doesn't help. What effectively determines power is how many moles of oxygen you can push into the chamber. If you just remove the CO2, the oxygen content is not increasing, the number of moles of oxygen hasn't increased, so it wouldn't change anything.

ncassi22
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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I meant if you did it at the filter before air is compressed through the turbo. This theoretical filtration system would obviously need a greater area and more mass flow to make up for the loss of other gasses. However Piast9 has pointed out the system would be too big. And I doubt a simple CO2 scrubber would have any beneficial effect.

wuzak
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Holm86 wrote:I think it looks like there is a wastegate. Where you see that plate with an X on it, it looks like another pipe is coming up and connecting to the main exhaust outlet. That pipe I think comes from a wastegate.
I disagree Holm. The line originates from a box which is supposed to be the ERS-H, and not from an exhaust header or the turbine.

It appears to me to be the rough shape of the gearbox/final drive unit, curving up to form the rear crash structure.

In any case, that is a sketch of an animation made from memory by a journo .

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Steven
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dren wrote:Also looks like he is showing the MGUH mounted under the turbo. Thought they had to be on the same axis?
No they don't have to be.

Article 5.1.6: the compressor and the turbine must be rotating around a common axis
Article 5.2.4: the MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.

So it can be just a set of gears between the turbo shaft and the MGU-H shaft, with possibly a clutch, which in the Ferrari sketch would likely sit within the MGU-H package, underneath the turbo.