2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
wuzak
wuzak
358
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

dren wrote:Also looks like he is showing the MGUH mounted under the turbo. Thought they had to be on the same axis?
No, I do not believe that to be the case.

5.2.4 The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.

It only requires a mechanical link to the turbo's shaft with a fixed ratio. It doesn't specify that the MGU-H need be on the same axis.

While there are some advantages to not having the MGU-H on the same axis - such as lowering the CoG - there are disadvantages.

The offset location requires a geartrain of some description. Because of the size of the turbo, the MGU-H will need to be offset by a relatively large distance, requiring either a pair of large gears, a train of several smaller gears or a shaft drive with bevel gears. The last has the additional disadvantage of lowering the drive efficiency, meaning more energy will be lost to the lubricating oil and less energy recovered (about 5-10% less IIRC). All have the disadvantage of putting side loading on the turbo shaft, requiring bigger and stronger bearings and a bigger and stronger shaft.

A co-axial layout allows the use of an epicyclic gear train, which will not put any additional side loading on the turbo's shaft and would maintain very high transmssion efficiencies.

BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade
25
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

AmuS are reporting that the engine Ferrari presented had the exhausts turned upwards. That can be seen on the sketch posted earlier as well. Mercedes and Renault are reported to have them bent sideways.
If that was the case FER could have a huge aerodynamic advantage because they can tighten the bottleneck much more than the competition in order to offset the missing beam wing.

Article:
http://m.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel ... 61352.html

User avatar
FW17
232
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:56 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

What is this?

Image

diemaster
diemaster
10
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:59 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

BorisTheBlade wrote:AmuS are reporting that the engine Ferrari presented had the exhausts turned upwards. That can be seen on the sketch posted earlier as well. Mercedes and Renault are reported to have them bent sideways.
If that was the case FER could have a huge aerodynamic advantage because they can tighten the bottleneck much more than the competition in order to offset the missing beam wing.

Article:
http://m.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel ... 61352.html
woow, good article and interesting.

User avatar
Holm86
230
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

Fuel pressure regulator is my guess.

EDIT: come to think about it I'm pretty sure its the fuel high pressure pump.
Last edited by Holm86 on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OO7
OO7
126
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

Holm86 wrote:I don't agree that it would be too expensive with variable valve technology. I know this a repost but also a great interview with Baretzky. He also mentions that the variable valve technology is in almost every single roadcar today and is an off the shelf technology that's not too expensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TAhWdVU3M4
Very nice interview. Cheers.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
39
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

BorisTheBlade wrote:AmuS are reporting that the engine Ferrari presented had the exhausts turned upwards. That can be seen on the sketch posted earlier as well. Mercedes and Renault are reported to have them bent sideways.
If that was the case FER could have a huge aerodynamic advantage because they can tighten the bottleneck much more than the competition in order to offset the missing beam wing.

Article:
http://m.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel ... 61352.html
i'm sure all the teams/engine manufacturers will have looked at doing this, it's fairly basic stuff and it'll just be about finding what works best for each teams aerodynamic concept. There are trade offs with every decision, ie having exhausts may give a higher centre of gravity. Who knows? Be interesting to see the various concepts next year.

User avatar
SectorOne
392
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 8:51 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

Even if they missed a beat on that, it seems like a rather easy thing to do over the winter.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

timbo
timbo
122
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:14 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

SectorOne wrote:Even if they missed a beat on that, it seems like a rather easy thing to do over the winter.
Not sure, such arrangement creates very different thermal conditions in a very tight and stressed area.

User avatar
ringo
232
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

It doesn't create much different thermal conditions.
The length of the pipes, diameter and thickness would more have an effect thermally if they were changed.
What does change is how they manage the heat flow pathway under the cover.
What i like about this though, is that it may make more room for radiators.

I have a question though, how does the fuel pump for these engines look?
500 bar sounds like a mechanical diesel pump.
For Sure!!

User avatar
Holm86
230
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:37 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

ringo wrote:It doesn't create much different thermal conditions.
The length of the pipes, diameter and thickness would more have an effect thermally if they were changed.
What does change is how they manage the heat flow pathway under the cover.
What i like about this though, is that it may make more room for radiators.

I have a question though, how does the fuel pump for these engines look?
500 bar sounds like a mechanical diesel pump.
Well I actually think that what WilliamsF1 highlighted on the picture is the fuelpump. Not a regulator.

langwadt
langwadt
62
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

Holm86 wrote:
Fuel pressure regulator is my guess.

EDIT: come to think about it I'm pretty sure its the fuel high pressure pump.
yeh, looks similar to this: http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/ ... dax_60.jpg
though Renault use magneti marelli

xpensive
xpensive
378
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

I'm still certain that what has been shown so far, including Ferrari, is not even close to the real thing.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade
25
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:15 am

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

bonjon1979 wrote:
BorisTheBlade wrote:AmuS are reporting that the engine Ferrari presented had the exhausts turned upwards. That can be seen on the sketch posted earlier as well. Mercedes and Renault are reported to have them bent sideways.
If that was the case FER could have a huge aerodynamic advantage because they can tighten the bottleneck much more than the competition in order to offset the missing beam wing.

Article:
http://m.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel ... 61352.html
i'm sure all the teams/engine manufacturers will have looked at doing this, it's fairly basic stuff and it'll just be about finding what works best for each teams aerodynamic concept. There are trade offs with every decision, ie having exhausts may give a higher centre of gravity. Who knows? Be interesting to see the various concepts next year.
I share your opinion but nevertheless it's interesting too see that there seem to be different schools of thought for such basic decisions. The knock on effect is severe and whoever got it wrong won't be able to adapt the alternative mid-season.
But my guess is that both tradeoffs might arrive at similar numbers concerning overall performance.

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
22
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 pm

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

Post

An information on OmnicorseF1 is telling us that in 2014 the engine cannot be developed after 28 February 2014. Only two months (those months during the testing) they can refine the engine, and those two months will almost surely be for refining the reliability and the internal workings of the engine. There won't be diferent specifications of the engine in the relationship factory team/ customer team, and there won't be engine development for the the factory team, because apart from reliability aspects, the engine will be frozen until 2015. The quality of the engine that Mercedes will have for example will be the same for Mclaren, Force India and Williams. So let's not be so sure about Mercedes domination in 2014. It's not even sure that they will have a better engine than Renault or Ferrari. I'm anxious to see news about Renault's maneuverability and Ferrari's inovative light materials.

http://translate.google.ro/translate?sl ... 8-febbraio
Someone tried to blow up the engine freeze in the first year of the turbos. The idea was to leave you free to work the three manufacturers (Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes) to do so that they can develop the new V6 Turbo. Luca Marmorini, however, he cut to the chase: "We must approve the internal combustion engine February 28, 2014: There will be no derogation, but you will comply with the rules for how it was written. "

Any assistance will be granted only for reasons of reliability and must be autotrizzati by all opponents. One can well understand the anxiety of what's engine which now have very little time to check the reliability of its propulsion systems. The puzzling fact is that the V6 Turbo will debut at Jerez on 28 January and will benefit only two pre-season test sessions (Jerez, 28/31 January and Bahrain 19/22 February) seen that the third and last round of collective tests will be held in Bahrain from February 27 to March 2, when the power-train will have already been submitted to the federal commitments. It is a folly.

The Federation will grant wild cards for 2015: "In the first year you will be able to use 25 coins of development - continues Marmorini - while their number will decrease with the passage of the championships until you come to a freezing real as it happened aspirated V8 engines. jocker Each will have a different weight depending on the particular that will change. "