IndyCar Series

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Just_a_fan
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:46 am

I think that indy's problem with the halo is the sight lines. In the banked corners, the driver is looking up as well as left and the halo potentially blocks his view. Keep in mind that at 200mph, the cars are doing nearly a football field per second so the drivers are looking a long way ahead. The halo would prevent that and make crashes even more likely.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

subcritical71
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by subcritical71 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Another point is the low nose concept. Hunter-Rays car basically lifted Wiggins car into the fence. I never understood why the regulators want to keep the nose so low. Also, Hinch had a pretty close one while going backwards down the track. It could have been bad if that car rolled up the nose.

Jolle
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Jolle » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:07 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:46 am
I think that indy's problem with the halo is the sight lines. In the banked corners, the driver is looking up as well as left and the halo potentially blocks his view. Keep in mind that at 200mph, the cars are doing nearly a football field per second so the drivers are looking a long way ahead. The halo would prevent that and make crashes even more likely.
I wonder if they ever tried, tested or calculated this or if they discarded the idea of the HALO on conservative grounds. Good to see on the onboard when, among others, Ryan Hunter Ray was on full speed trough small debris without any problems. The aero screen is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

Just_a_fan
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:12 pm

jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:42 am
Looking at images of where his head ended (even with HANS) I image a possible broken neck, though maybe a compression injury to the lower back like Davidson had at Le Mans a few years back.
Looking at the crash again, when he's in the air whirling around, and as he lands, the helmet is almost down below the cockpit sides. That does look like a neck injury waiting to happen.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

roon
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by roon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 pm

If the catch fences could be less grabby perhaps these spins could be prevented. Would plexiglass/lexan/acrylic/PC panels be better? Otherwise, a method of preventing the cars from launching over the tire wall should be developed.
Last edited by roon on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Just_a_fan
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:04 pm

Interestingly, watching the car slide along the barrier, his head is forward already suggesting there's some decent deceleration happening already. That's a good thing, of course, because it meant when he hit the fence, there was less energy trying to burst through the fence and cause the car to wrap around a post. Even so, it still spun heavily which, I guess, is when the wheel caught and "dug in" to the fence. The wheel was still there when they went to repair the fence.

The onboard of the car taking off the top of Hunter-Reay's roll hoop cover/camera shows how lucky they were. Again, a few inches and we'd be looking at a dead driver there.

They were lucky, very lucky, not to have multiple fatalities.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

jjn9128
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by jjn9128 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:19 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:12 pm
Looking at the crash again, when he's in the air whirling around, and as he lands, the helmet is almost down below the cockpit sides. That does look like a neck injury waiting to happen.
Yeah that's probably the same pic I was looking at. It's when it hits the catch fencing and spins and the head is jerked around like a rag-doll, these modern helmets are not very heavy but under those accelerations it's a considerable load on the neck. I also wonder how the absorption of the headrest foam diminishes with multiple hits.
#aerogandalf

Zynerji
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Zynerji » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am

Crazy accident. Could have definitely been fatal.

I grew up about 45 minutes from Pocono, and have seen many races there in my time. The fencing saved that man, as what lies beyond would have been far more catastrophic.

I'm not sure hockey style polycarbonate walls would have been better, but it seems a double height Safer Barrier might have been the best impact structure.

subcritical71
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by subcritical71 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:30 am

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am
Crazy accident. Could have definitely been fatal.

I grew up about 45 minutes from Pocono, and have seen many races there in my time. The fencing saved that man, as what lies beyond would have been far more catastrophic.

I'm not sure hockey style polycarbonate walls would have been better, but it seems a double height Safer Barrier might have been the best impact structure.
Great point, when I think about it, most of the really tragic accidents where a car has gone over the safer barrier would have not happened with a double high barrier. In the area where this occurred there was no visibility concern from outside the track so it may make more sense to start installing double highs in turns where there are no spectators, and where there are spectators evaluate what can be done.

roon
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by roon » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:50 am

....
Last edited by roon on Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WaikeCU
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by WaikeCU » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:46 am

Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am
Crazy accident. Could have definitely been fatal.

I grew up about 45 minutes from Pocono, and have seen many races there in my time. The fencing saved that man, as what lies beyond would have been far more catastrophic.

I'm not sure hockey style polycarbonate walls would have been better, but it seems a double height Safer Barrier might have been the best impact structure.
Yes, but then the spectators won't see anything...

Unless you switch it the other way around. The stands are on the infield and the pitlane, paddock are on the outside? :?: :idea:

langwadt
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by langwadt » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:01 am

WaikeCU wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:46 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am
Crazy accident. Could have definitely been fatal.

I grew up about 45 minutes from Pocono, and have seen many races there in my time. The fencing saved that man, as what lies beyond would have been far more catastrophic.

I'm not sure hockey style polycarbonate walls would have been better, but it seems a double height Safer Barrier might have been the best impact structure.
Yes, but then the spectators won't see anything...

Unless you switch it the other way around. The stands are on the infield and the pitlane, paddock are on the outside? :?: :idea:
from the infield everyone would only have a view of parts of the track, outside they can see all the track

Zynerji
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Zynerji » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:03 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:46 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am
Crazy accident. Could have definitely been fatal.

I grew up about 45 minutes from Pocono, and have seen many races there in my time. The fencing saved that man, as what lies beyond would have been far more catastrophic.

I'm not sure hockey style polycarbonate walls would have been better, but it seems a double height Safer Barrier might have been the best impact structure.
Yes, but then the spectators won't see anything...

Unless you switch it the other way around. The stands are on the infield and the pitlane, paddock are on the outside? :?: :idea:
On ovals (or tri-ovals like Pocono) you watch more across the track than the part closest to you. At least I did when I went to NASCAR races there in the early-mid 90s. Double height barriers in the corners wouldn't interfere IMHO.

jjn9128
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by jjn9128 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:12 pm
Looking at the crash again, when he's in the air whirling around, and as he lands, the helmet is almost down below the cockpit sides. That does look like a neck injury waiting to happen.
Latest reported on motorsport is a thoracic fracture from compression and nerve injury - which suggests paraplegia is the prognosis. Could be the nerves are pinched by swelling around the break and function could recover with time. Depending on the severity of his leg breaks that could be tough to check and rehab. Hopefully he'll race again but it's looking less likely every day.
#aerogandalf

Just_a_fan
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Re: IndyCar Series

Post by Just_a_fan » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:16 pm

That is bad news then. Not surprised having seen the crash. Hopefully any lasting effects are not too severe but paraplegia sounds a bit final. :(
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"