Indy car windscreen

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SteveRacer
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Indy car windscreen

Post by SteveRacer » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:14 pm


jjn9128
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by jjn9128 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:34 pm

I'm not sure about screens on single seaters... maybe it's more visually pleasing than the halo, but I wonder how it will cope when struck at >200mi/hr. How will it cope with oil, rubber, insects, rain?! The open top I'd imagine will mean it gets dirty inside as well as on the outside. Will the tight curvature cause visual dangerous distortions on ovals and speedways?

I suppose that's what the next pre-season test will show.
Jin.
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djos
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by djos » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:38 pm

So much better than halo! Bravo IndyCar!
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Manoah2u
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Manoah2u » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:56 pm

djos wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:38 pm
So much better than halo! Bravo IndyCar!
let's see it in full complete car first, and see what forces it can handle, and whether drivers dont get dizzy.

a windscreen is not the same as something that can deflect wheels and debris.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

djos
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by djos » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:00 am

Manoah2u wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:56 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:38 pm
So much better than halo! Bravo IndyCar!
let's see it in full complete car first, and see what forces it can handle, and whether drivers dont get dizzy.

a windscreen is not the same as something that can deflect wheels and debris.
Mate, that's made out of the same material as Jet fighter canopies (Opticor), they would be bothering if it couldn't do the job.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Manoah2u
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:39 am

djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:00 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:56 pm
djos wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:38 pm
So much better than halo! Bravo IndyCar!
let's see it in full complete car first, and see what forces it can handle, and whether drivers dont get dizzy.

a windscreen is not the same as something that can deflect wheels and debris.
Mate, that's made out of the same material as Jet fighter canopies (Opticor), they would be bothering if it couldn't do the job.
mate, a jet fighter windscreen is a full canopy, enclosed and added with steel frame reinforcement, something totally absent here. let's see some crash tests (like the way the FIA propelled wheels at prototypes) and see that first.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

djos
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by djos » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 am

Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:39 am
mate, a jet fighter windscreen is a full canopy, enclosed and added with steel frame reinforcement, something totally absent here. let's see some crash tests (like the way the FIA propelled wheels at prototypes) and see that first.
yeah sure it is, at the very back. #-o

Image

The F-16 is designed to withstand 2 pound bird strikes at ~460 kph without damage:

https://youtu.be/ibJ3aXrvaCs

PS, I have seen mention they are rated for birdstrikes @ up to 550kts (1,000 kph) but I cant find a solid source atm.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Zynerji
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Zynerji » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:20 am


djos
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by djos » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 am

The real Jet Fighter canopy was fine, but their bodge-up wasn't. The Jet Fighter canopy was obviously properly engineered.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Zynerji
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Zynerji » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:40 am

djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 am
The real Jet Fighter canopy was fine, but their bodge-up wasn't. The Jet Fighter canopy was obviously properly engineered.
I was pointing out that the canopy was tested, and passed. Not making any points about the broken one.

Edax
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Edax » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:37 am

djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 am
The real Jet Fighter canopy was fine, but their bodge-up wasn't. The Jet Fighter canopy was obviously properly engineered.
The goal is not to stay intact. The goal is to take enough energy out of an object to cause no or less harm. That is hard to judge from a video. So the screen may or may not have performed, but eithout careful analysis of the footage and access to shock data you wouldn’t be able to tell.

jjn9128
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by jjn9128 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:03 pm

Edax wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:37 am
The goal is not to stay intact. The goal is to take enough energy out of an object to cause no or less harm. That is hard to judge from a video. So the screen may or may not have performed, but without careful analysis of the footage and access to shock data you wouldn’t be able to tell.
Agreed, the canopy shattering is no bad thing if it protects the driver first - better a retirement than a casualty. The main issues I see are soiling and visual distortion. This screen already has an advantage over the FIA shield in that it has 1 plane of curvature rather than 2, but being thick plastic you can already see some distortion in the head-on view. We'll have to wait for Dixon's report after the test to know how severe it is.
djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 am
The F-16 is designed to withstand 2 pound bird strikes at ~460 kph without damage:
E.K. for a 2lb (0.91kg) bird at 460km/hr is 7.4kJ - an 11kg (25lb) wheel and tyre at 240km/hr is 24.4kJ.

IIRC the reasons the FIA didn't take the full canopy further were issues of driver egress and the wheel test. While the wheel was deflected, it remained inflated so became a bouncing missile - whereas other systems (halo, roll hoops) tested deflated the tyre.
Jin.
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Manoah2u
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:02 pm

djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:46 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:39 am
mate, a jet fighter windscreen is a full canopy, enclosed and added with steel frame reinforcement, something totally absent here. let's see some crash tests (like the way the FIA propelled wheels at prototypes) and see that first.
yeah sure it is, at the very back. #-o

https://i.stack.imgur.com/m6j63.jpg

The F-16 is designed to withstand 2 pound bird strikes at ~460 kph without damage:

https://youtu.be/ibJ3aXrvaCs

PS, I have seen mention they are rated for birdstrikes @ up to 550kts (1,000 kph) but I cant find a solid source atm.
missing the point completely again. a full closed canopy has a completely different structural integrity, especially with a hoop at it. offcourse it's completely closed, it's a jet fighter. but that is what gives it it's strenght.

cut it in half, and obviously, without any question, you're going to lose a good amount of strenght.

in other words you can start throwing things in the air like birdstrikes mach 1, but those are all designed with a closed canopy in mind that has a reinforcement AND additionally also has another material composity. thicker, added with other transparent material, whatever. it can weigh much more than you'd want in F1 / Indy because the jet fighters have completely different applciations AND other power usages.

you're comparing the wrong things.

hence you can be as stubborn as you want by throwing stuff in the air, the fact is, they are 2 different designs and thus cannot be compared, and as such, you cannot project fighter claims on F1/indy cars as if it automatically has the same result.

Exaclty because of that, you don't have it in F1. Thinking indy can come up with a better solution than F1 without any effort is sticking your head in the sand. the FIA has researched thorooughly what to do, and came up with the halo as the best solution right now. To think the FIA has not been eyeing the same thing we see in indy now is the most ignorant thing to come up with. They spend precious amounts of money, and again, came to the conclusion that to protect the driver from the impacts, debris, and dangers faced with, neither the aeroscreen, nor this windscreen will have been sufficient to the demands.

which can only mean 1 thing; this thing is not up for the same job the Halo is, and additionally, there is the issue of oiling up/dirt piling up on the windscreen.

there are only a few arguments to place for the indyscreen, and that is because indy and f1 don't neccesarily share the exact same dangers, and the competition is different, decisions can be made differently. that's it really.

and again, we haven't even slightly seen this device put up for the test, except for what FIA has already done, and it FAILED. the screen SHATTERED.

get your head out of the sand.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Manoah2u
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Manoah2u » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:04 pm

djos wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 am
The real Jet Fighter canopy was fine, but their bodge-up wasn't. The Jet Fighter canopy was obviously properly engineered.
:lol: =D> ignorant response for the win. with such clueless responses, i don't even know why i took the effort to reply to you. #-o
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Xwang
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Re: Indy car windscreen

Post by Xwang » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:32 pm

More similar to the EFA front "windscreen" than the F16 canopy.