Infinity Wings

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
'Tis me, just me.
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Infinity Wings

Post by 'Tis me, just me. » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:47 pm

https://youtu.be/CLfkcm-0EA0

Why don't we see infinity wings in F1, are they banned? If not I think the designers are missing out on something big. It would be so cool to see these on the grid.

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

Post by hollus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:26 am

Something like that is so far from what is described in the F1 technical regulations that it is beyond forbidden.
But in any case, the aero needs for the car in your video are so far away from the needs for an F1 car that one would never use the same solution in both. I mean, the front on one car has nothing to do with the front of the other car.
It is not white, it is not black, it is probably gray.

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by jjn9128 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:34 am

This is a better video explaining the concept - the design is really a result of the onset flow field having incidence relative to the centre plane of the car. In F1 the front wing is unobstructed and unhindered by any other geometry. That said, if you look around the bargeboard area of an F1 car, they have a lot of little winglets of a similar design - creating side-force which aids the bargeboards in pushing air outboard of the car.

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by Slo Poke » Wed May 01, 2019 12:48 am

'Tis me, just me. wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:47 pm
https://youtu.be/CLfkcm-0EA0

Why don't we see infinity wings in F1, are they banned? If not I think the designers are missing out on something big. It would be so cool to see these on the grid.
I’ve already commented on the Infinity Wing idea but in a different thread. In that one I proposed the concept of placing them aft and inboard of the front wheels in order to scoop up the wheel wake from the inside edge of them. Together with a vertical wedge like aero-foil used to perhaps improve air-compression and maintain airspeed from around the front of the tyre to the inside edge and land as heavy or condensed atmospheric air on the repositioned wings just aft of them. Also and for the first time ever for me, what’s called turning vanes could be made better use of by channeling an even greater amount of air outboard from the centreline of the car towards these wings, or even just behind what would be called the main plane towards a second element. With yet a third element designed to handle car directional under flow.
It wouldn’t simply be the wing or wings with all the adjustment either. Set around the area of where the bargeboards are now and still apply downforce to either just ahead or directly between the front wheels, these wings could be mounted independently on rigid levers attached to the chassis geometrically, that’s two independent adjustments right there without mention of lever length and element area plus number of.

The idea of the vertical wedge, i e, snowplough type aero foil ahead of the front wheel presents the opportunity to mount a free to rotate, in either direction, tube rounded off at the extreme outer limits to guard against front wheel mounting rear wheel in an incident or very close racing.
Imagine an open wheel racing car halfway through a left or right hand turn. Where might you expect the outside wheelwake to end up, if some of the aforementioned was implemented?

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by DiogoBrand » Wed May 01, 2019 12:57 am

Image
Isn't that the same principle as these horizontal winglets that Haas, Ferrari and some other teams have been using? I mean, if there's air going sideways and hitting them they'd sort of have the same purpose.

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by Slo Poke » Thu May 02, 2019 1:14 pm

DiogoBrand wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 12:57 am
https://i.redd.it/i0ztacn75ah21.jpg
Isn't that the same principle as these horizontal winglets that Haas, Ferrari and some other teams have been using? I mean, if there's air going sideways and hitting them they'd sort of have the same purpose.
DiogoBrand: I’m somewhat new on this excellent forum and as such I wasn’t entirely sure your comment may have been an attempt to engage mine, the one above! If that is indeed the case; I Apologise.
The photo you have provided could not have been a better pick; slight pun there but anyway, it tends to show that a lot is being sought after in this area. It says to me primarily that Haas are aware that atmospheric air is present in that area and are trying to break it up and dissipate it outboard of the main body of the car. However, as far as I’m concerned, that is backward thinking. In the wind tunnel it may be all hunky-dory but out on track it becomes gubbins. Backward thinking! On track the car is rushing into relatively stationary air and there’s a bow-wave constantly in residence there. All those winglets, conditioners, vortex generators and what all are in fact adding weight to that bow-wave. The comment of mine, despite its infancy, describes or offers a more fluent use of that bow-wave and think you grasp that!

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by strad » Thu May 02, 2019 7:51 pm

Something like that is so far from what is described in the F1 technical regulations that it is beyond forbidden.
Your statement re-enforces what I have said about the FIA rules designing cars to a spec.
We already have a spec series of sorts.
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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by Slo Poke » Fri May 03, 2019 12:07 am

strad wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 7:51 pm
Something like that is so far from what is described in the F1 technical regulations that it is beyond forbidden.
Your statement re-enforces what I have said about the FIA rules designing cars to a spec.
We already have a spec series of sorts.
I really don’t give a monkeys cuss about wether or not f1 is specialised. What I see at present, are cars being nursed to the detriment of true racing. So with what little time there is of it, shown on channel 4, I pay very careful attention to what pans out on track and listening to what’s said by anyone. We have a tyre maker dishing out black marmalade round things that are easily destroyed when used to creep up on a car ahead. Now it’s said that that is due to the front wings losing their downforce producing ability and letting the car they are attached to slide mercilessly around. Well the content of the comment I think your comment is referring to, offers a cure to the situation. Now why can’t the rules be amended to produce better racing?

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Re: Infinity Wings

Post by strad » Fri May 03, 2019 12:35 am

I'm not sure what reply means but as to your question """"Now why can’t the rules be amended to produce better racing?"""""
The answer is because you have to get all the children on board and if any think it might hurt their advantage they won't allow the change. Which is why we need to change that rule first. You can't have the inmates having control or a vote. You need a strong ruling body in charge.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss