2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
User avatar
Wouter
625
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Cuky wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:59 am
19 year old Moto3 rider Jason Dupasquier has died in hospital after getting heavily injured in a crash in yesterdays Q2 for Moto3.

In the accident he fell down on the exit of T10 with Ayumu Sasaki and Jeremy Alcoba following him closely both being included in that accident. One of them had hit him whilst unable to avoid him and from those injuries he died today.

RIP.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/05/ ... way/375889

User avatar
RZS10
225
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

I woke up and checked if there's any news, some article said he was in critical condition, turned on DAZN for the start of Moto2 and got the bad news - the situation afterwards was a bit weird because no one seemed to want to tell the Moto2 guys post race and you had a few of them who knew and some were celebrating like normal ... Good on the interviewer though when Bezzecchi said something along the lines of "My thoughts are with Jason" for not telling him right then and there, class.

What is that silly rule with place drops for exceeding track limits (on the last lap)? We complain about the rules in F1 but that is just ... terrible.
They penalized Oliveira who dropped to 3rd for something that wasn't even clear in the footage, then they penalized Mir for the same thing where it was just as marginal and he went back to third and Oliveira moved back up to 2nd - almost looked like they didn't want to go back on their initial decision?

User avatar
NathanOlder
164
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Good job they didnt penalise Mir first, otherwise 4th place would have ended in 2nd lol
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

User avatar
Cuky
81
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 pm
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

RZS10 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 1:58 pm
What is that silly rule with place drops for exceeding track limits (on the last lap)? We complain about the rules in F1 but that is just ... terrible.
They penalized Oliveira who dropped to 3rd for something that wasn't even clear in the footage, then they penalized Mir for the same thing where it was just as marginal and he went back to third and Oliveira moved back up to 2nd - almost looked like they didn't want to go back on their initial decision?

Basically because lots of times it wasn't clear if someone was out or not since the start of this season instead on relying on pictures and replays they have pressure sensors embedded outside of the white lines and kerbs on the corner exits. If rider goes out even by 1mm they will be registered as being out of the track. (Vinales lost his lap in Q2 @ Portimao just like that). On the last lap they are even stricter so whoever goes out of the track must drop a place.


In my opinion the way MotoGP does it is better of two evils when compared to F1. Riders and teams all know that if they are registered as going out that is because they touched the pressure sensor. And it may be harsh, like it was in Moto2 and MotoGP today, but at least it is same for everyone and is consistent. Unlike F1 where there is different decision being made at every GP because there are different stewards at each GP. And then even in the same GP they can't be consistent.

User avatar
etusch
199
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Turkey

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post


User avatar
El Scorchio
55
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

What awful news about Jason Dupasquier. We should never forget that these guys on two or four wheels are risking themselves every time they strap in or climb on.

User avatar
RZS10
225
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Cuky wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 6:37 pm
RZS10 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 1:58 pm
What is that silly rule with place drops for exceeding track limits (on the last lap)? We complain about the rules in F1 but that is just ... terrible.
They penalized Oliveira who dropped to 3rd for something that wasn't even clear in the footage, then they penalized Mir for the same thing where it was just as marginal and he went back to third and Oliveira moved back up to 2nd - almost looked like they didn't want to go back on their initial decision?

Basically because lots of times it wasn't clear if someone was out or not since the start of this season instead on relying on pictures and replays they have pressure sensors embedded outside of the white lines and kerbs on the corner exits. If rider goes out even by 1mm they will be registered as being out of the track. (Vinales lost his lap in Q2 @ Portimao just like that). On the last lap they are even stricter so whoever goes out of the track must drop a place.


In my opinion the way MotoGP does it is better of two evils when compared to F1. Riders and teams all know that if they are registered as going out that is because they touched the pressure sensor. And it may be harsh, like it was in Moto2 and MotoGP today, but at least it is same for everyone and is consistent. Unlike F1 where there is different decision being made at every GP because there are different stewards at each GP. And then even in the same GP they can't be consistent.
Ah alright, so it's basically just the contact patch which counts, that's why it looked like they were potentially still in.
Does the "drop one place" rule count when they're several seconds ahead of the next guy?

User avatar
Cuky
81
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 pm
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Yes. If you happen to go on to the green concrete part out of the kerbs in the last lap of the race the punishment is always the same - drop one place.

In every other lap of the race they just count your off track excursions. If you get out on the green 3 times you get the warning displayed on your dashboard. If you then do it 2 more times, so 5 in total, you get the long lap penalty unless it is within last 3 laps when you just get time added on instead of you needing to go through long lap.

In free practice and both qualifying sessions whenever you go on green that lap time is deleted.


Also until the end of last year if you had one tire in contact with track, kerb or white line you were considered to be on the track and not out of it. Since from this year the system is automated even if one tire is still on you're considered to be off the track.

User avatar
RZS10
225
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Thanks for the info ... that system is just terrible, it might be more consistent than F1 but completely ridiculous at the same time if it allows for such nonsense like dropping behind competitors who had no chance to race you.

User avatar
rscsr
72
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:02 pm
Location: Austria

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

RZS10 wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 10:40 pm
Thanks for the info ... that system is just terrible, it might be more consistent than F1 but completely ridiculous at the same time if it allows for such nonsense like dropping behind competitors who had no chance to race you.
Why? If you can't stay on the track, why should you have any advantage over someone who does?
If the leading rider runs over the track limits he gains enough to prevent an overtake, so the rider behind has to run over the track limits to keep in contention.
When there still was some ambiguity over what was allowed there were overtakes into the last corner just because the rider behind was running over the limits.
What should be the proper penalty for running over the track limits? Since you get a long lap penalty after 5 infractions and a long lap costs about 3s, it should be 0.6s. So that is equivalent to losing a place anyway in bike racing.

User avatar
RZS10
225
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Maybe re-read the previous posts....

Q: "Does the "drop one place" rule count when they're several seconds ahead of the next guy?"

A: "Yes. If you happen to go on to the green concrete part out of the kerbs in the last lap of the race the punishment is always the same - drop one place."

"[it's] terrible [...] if it allows for such nonsense like dropping behind competitors who had no chance to race you.

In general the riders mostly seem to agree with the rule being bad, so do the commentators, so does a large portion of the viewerbase apparently ... no one can say with an honest face that either of the three guys in Moto2 or MotoGP "gained an advantage" by being so marginally off track that it wasn't even properly visible in the footage.

It's like those VAR offside decisions where the ball was played between frames and they claim to be able to make a millimetre decision ...

Anyways... you like it... i think it's ridiculous ... no point in arguing i guess.

User avatar
Cuky
81
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 pm
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Well the part od the rule that considers last lap off track excursion probably needs rethinking. Though it still in my opinion should be black and white, either you're out or you're in. What they should maybe do is compare riders last say 5 laps on that part. of the track. If he wasn't more than xy% faster than before then no penalty

User avatar
Cuky
81
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:41 pm
Location: Rab, Croatia

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Remy Gardner will join Tech3 team in MotoGP next season
https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/06/ ... 022/376565

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
100
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:10 am
Location: Altair IV.

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

Cuky wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 9:42 am
Well the part od the rule that considers last lap off track excursion probably needs rethinking. Though it still in my opinion should be black and white, either you're out or you're in. What they should maybe do is compare riders last say 5 laps on that part. of the track. If he wasn't more than xy% faster than before then no penalty
Yeah, its overkill, just as the pit-road ride-through penalty was, but likely it stems
from V.R.'s last lap corner-cutting off-track 'cheat' during the 2015 Dutch Moto GP
at Assen, where he did gain a winning advantage over M.M...

"I believe in the Workers Revolution & I believe in the Final Solution,
I believe in the Shape of Things to Come, & I believe I'm not the only one..."
: Pete Shelley (Buzzcocks).

sosic2121
sosic2121
17
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:14 am

Re: 2021 FIM MotoGP WC

Post

J.A.W. wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:18 pm
Cuky wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 9:42 am
Well the part od the rule that considers last lap off track excursion probably needs rethinking. Though it still in my opinion should be black and white, either you're out or you're in. What they should maybe do is compare riders last say 5 laps on that part. of the track. If he wasn't more than xy% faster than before then no penalty
Yeah, its overkill, just as the pit-road ride-through penalty was, but likely it stems
from V.R.'s last lap corner-cutting off-track 'cheat' during the 2015 Dutch Moto GP
at Assen, where he did gain a winning advantage over M.M...

What a move!
And since both riders left the track, new rule wouldn't change the result.