Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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Blackout
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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Thanks for you both.

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747heavy
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:

Spot on :) , from what I have just read. Wikipedia(dont laugh) have it that HWA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Daimler. Aufrecht retains certain rights including company direction, which is joint between Benz and himself.
Sorry JET,
I think this info, is not totally correct:
HWA AG is an listed company on the stock exchange.
The founding capital was split as follow:

Shares in issue

* 5,115,000 shares

Authorised capital

* EUR 5,115,000.00

Shareholdings at stock exchange listing on 19 April 2007

* Aufrecht GmbH 48.00%
* Roswitha Aufrecht 3.00%
* MarchSixteen Finance Services LLP 22.86%
* Dörflinger Privatstiftung 20.14%
* Hans-Jürgen Mattheis 3.00%
* Gerhard Ungar 3.00%

current share price is: ~ 11.90 €

so you can buy a pice of the action if you like.
possibly Mercedes is holding some shares, but I don´t think that they hold a majory stake.

Management Board

* Gerhard Ungar

Supervisory Board

* Jürgen Hubbert, Chairman
* Hans Werner Aufrecht, Deputy Chairman
* Rolf Krissler
* Christian Wolff
* Willibald Dörflinger
* Ayman Al-Abbasi

for more informations:
http://www.hwaag.com/home.html

AFAIK
Cosworth has designed/bulit? the 16 valve cylinder head for the 190 engine, as Mercedes at the time did not had much know how in regards to 16V applications.
But I can´t garantee that this info is entirely correct.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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747 thanks for that.

A cursory glance on google suggest what you are saying is true.

However, I dont think HWA are a totally seperate entity from Mercedes. Their buildings and factory are merely a few hundred meters apart, and in Jurgen Hubbert they have a former Benz CEO.

It should also be note that Hans Werner Aufrecht is possibly the biggest Mercedes nut going. nearing 70 years of age now, but his passion is fantastic.
I personally see Mercedes purchasing HWA when the man himself departs into the next world.
They could use it as a stand alone tuning firm a la AMG or even as its own inhouse racing team, which it unofficially kind of already is.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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747heavy
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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well, tell me - I used to work for them back in 1993-1995 :lol:
Helping to develop and built the first proper Class 1 DTM car for AMG
I´m in the photo below, it´s 4:00am before we leave for the first roll out on a airfield close to Stuttgart - long time ago, when I was young&crazy

The land and core building where HWA is today used to be the horse stables.
As you may know Hans-Werner Aufrechts daugther is a world class rider.
And he still has a multi million $ horse stable, which is now another mile down the road, as they bought out a local farmer.
It´s located in Affalterbach, about 500 mtr´s from the old AMG buildings.
It´s about 25-30 km from Stuttgart, so not near the Mercedes plant.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 7&t=h&z=16

HWA is Mercedes´s "inhouse race team" at least for everything outside F1.
Not sure if they need/want to buy it, when H-W A. goes into the "other world", because they have "control" anyway. I don´t think that there will be anything HWA would do, which Mercedes does not o.k. - they are all amigos - big time.

I don´t think, that Mercedes really want/need another brand/label, they have AMG and it is working very well for them.
The HWA setup for the race team has more to do with the unions and the working laws in Germany.
You just can´t operate a successful race team inside a large coperation like Mercedes, these days.
With all the overtime, long hours, working on weekends etc.- it´s just a juristic nightmare.

You can see that across the board with all German manufactures.
They use external proxys
Audi - Team Abt Sportsline (DTM / Joest (LeMans) and BMW - Schnitzer, and even the "inhouse" race departments such as Audi Sport or/and BMW Motorsport are Ltd´s in there own right.

enjoy a piece of Mercedes racing history:
Image
Last edited by 747heavy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP MGP W01

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Morteza AMG wrote:A high resolution image of C291 engine:

Image
What a pity we were never to see what an MP4-10 Neil Oately and Henri Durand could have built around the above?

Just imagine the whining from Nigel Mansell driving it? :lol:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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747heavy
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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some photos from the C292 for you JET
Enjoy:

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"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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747heavy
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:45 pm

Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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C291:

Image
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"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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747heavy
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Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:45 pm

Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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bit off topic but I hope you enjoy:

note the inboard drum brakes:
Image

A "real" Mercedes F1 engine :lol:

>>>>
Three liter straight eight powerplant powered Mercedes back to the top of both the Grand Prix and Sports Car Championship world during 1954/1955. A technical marvel with desmodromic valve gear and Hirth type crankshaft, output peaked at 302hp.
<<<<

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have a nice day JET
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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747 your my new best friend!!! :lol:

Thank you for all the images, especially those of the C292.

So what position did you have withing the DTM team if I may ask?
More could have been done.
David Purley

benjabulle
benjabulle
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Re: Sauber Mercedes-Benz C291

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For the photos, better to take the originals one :

http://www.gurneyflap.com/mercedesc292.html

and the carbon tub shown above is from the Peugeot 905 Evo 2, not the Mercedes.