2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

F1NAC wrote:
28 Aug 2018, 13:59
New rear wing position will be discussed on stratery group meeting. 50 mm higher than now for next year for better visibilty. Also new mirror positions
The new rules will include the raising of the rear wing by 50mm in order to create a bigger window of visibility between the lower surface of the main plane and the top surface of the sidepod.

Furthermore, a more prescriptive mirror position will be laid out in the rules – with them being lower and more outboard to ensure they are situated in a better place for the drivers.

There will also be more stricter rules on mirror mountings to try to ensure teams do not put performance gains over safety matters.
Surely they're not still fading with the regs. 20mm higher and 20mm back was last I heard. Teams have to be designing the cars by now.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
F1NAC
163
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
28 Aug 2018, 14:34
F1NAC wrote:
28 Aug 2018, 13:59
New rear wing position will be discussed on stratery group meeting. 50 mm higher than now for next year for better visibilty. Also new mirror positions
The new rules will include the raising of the rear wing by 50mm in order to create a bigger window of visibility between the lower surface of the main plane and the top surface of the sidepod.

Furthermore, a more prescriptive mirror position will be laid out in the rules – with them being lower and more outboard to ensure they are situated in a better place for the drivers.

There will also be more stricter rules on mirror mountings to try to ensure teams do not put performance gains over safety matters.
Surely they're not still fading with the regs. 20mm higher and 20mm back was last I heard. Teams have to be designing the cars by now.
If i read correctly this was triggered after Vandoorne shunt

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

F1NAC wrote:
28 Aug 2018, 16:01
If i read correctly this was triggered after Vandoorne shunt
I must admit I'm a bit confused by this rationale... if moving the wing vertically upward were the solution then Bottas should have been able to see Vandoorne because of the super skinny wings they were using at Spa... admittedly the Mercs were running a bigger wing than Red Bull or Ferrari, but it was still really small near the tips.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

roon
roon
412
Joined: 17 Dec 2016, 19:04

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Camera, radar, beacons; there are ways to aid driver awareness. One challenge would be: where to put the screens. I assume race control knows where cars are located upon the track most of the time. Timing data suggests this is available commercially to spectators.

MatsNorway
MatsNorway
4
Joined: 17 Jan 2016, 23:24

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

cameras can fail. Its rare that mirrors fail.. ofc. if teams want to carry extra junk to reduce drag i guess that is fine.

In return a faulty mirror/camera should force a pit stop on safety grounds.
je suis charlie

A touch of genius is the simplest thing.


DRS is like supports on a bicycle[/size]

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Mirrors can fall off / be knocked off by flying debris - seen both of those happen over the years...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
Godius
186
Joined: 02 Mar 2013, 12:49
Location: NL

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

If the rear facing camera feed would be available to the driver in the cockpit it would make the racing even more clinical because in theory you could block every overtaking attempt on the limit of the last possible opportunity. Verstappen was really good at this with the normal mirrors over the past years because of his racing simulator games history.

Chicane
Chicane
14
Joined: 26 Jan 2016, 11:21

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Disclaimer: Don't have a clue about aero, just trying to understand if next year rules are significant enough.

Paddy Lowe says 2019 aero rules are F1's most significant change since 2009.

Currently the end plate and the front wing turning wanes create Vortices which pull the front tire wake outwards, away from the floor, bargeboards and sidepods. Next year the front wing turning vanes are banned, front wing limited to 5 elements, end plate tunnels not allowed and end plates themselves will be standardized to significantly reduce the out wash effect.

The question i want to ask is if the new front wing rules, banning of brake duct fins and lowered bargeboard positioning is a big enough change to cause some sort of reset in competitive order?
Quickshifter

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
591
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

The changes might cause a localised order change -maybe the top three will finish differently, the middle order finish differently etc, but the chances of Williams or Sauber suddenly becoming the main title contenders are slim. The top three have the best facilities and the top design talent along with the best drivers. Even if Williams comes up with a magic bullet solution - such as happened back with the double diffuser - the top three will soon be all over it and make it work for them. Or get it banned, of course.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

^^This!

Every rule change is the biggest since 2009 for these guys (when the press needs a soundbite), they said it in 2014 too. 2017 was a bigger raft of rule changes - these changes will have a small affect on the flow around the car and the wake, obviously that requires a lot of attention when every minutiae is tweaked and fettled for the gain of 0.001 of a second.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

There is certainly opportunity for next year, depends who focuses on the right places early on, and who wastes their time chasing their tail. The effect of the front wing will be a little different to this year, it won't be a huge change, the rear wing will create more drag than it has in the last 8 years.

The lowering of the bargeboard also won't have too much influence, the cars will start the season maybe .6 seconds slower than this year, but by the end of the year they'll have made that up. The bargeboards are still very much open, and with a simplified front wing, the bargeboards will be the focus for conditioning flow to the diffuser, and sealing the rest of the floor.

I expect teams to make this area as modular as possible so they can try out different designs, and aggressively develop this area to work with the new front wing and nose.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1033
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

Are there any changes regarding the T-wing in the 2019 regulations?

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

MtthsMlw wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 16:05
Are there any changes regarding the T-wing in the 2019 regulations?
They've not been published yet.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1033
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

jjn9128 wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 16:22
MtthsMlw wrote:
02 Oct 2018, 16:05
Are there any changes regarding the T-wing in the 2019 regulations?
They've not been published yet.
Alright thank you :D

User avatar
jjn9128
769
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: 2017-2020 Aerodynamic Technical Regulations

Post

2019 regulations have been published on the FIA website today for anyone interested - fia.com/regulations

Good grief the front wing rules are now very convoluted...
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica