New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

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PlatinumZealot
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New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:45 am

I hereby propose to the FIA - if any of you are reading this - a device that reduces the second biggest threat to safety in wet weather driving next to aquaplaning: water spray from the tyres.

Water spray from the tyres severely impair the vision of following drivers. Water puddles, braking points, the position of rivals and the worst of all troubled cars on the track are more threatening when hidden behind the screen of water spray.

Therefore a solution to reduce water spray from the tyres is a welcome improvment in the ongoing work of improving safety in motor sport. We will loose that spectacular rooster tail but it is for the benefit of safety.

I will propose to you a device that is mounted behind the wheels of the car that deflects water spray from the contact patch in a way which:

Keeps the cars open wheeled

Is rigidly fixed bodywork

Does not deterioate aerodynamics of the car. Infact, it may be made to improve the aerodynamics so that if the device is broken off the car's performance is penalized. (yes it is safety device but not a critical one so the car may continuein
the race).

Diffuses water spray so as to not cause a flow stream onto the ground infront of following cars.

I will try to draw something up but while I do that,I invite all memebers to share their version of this concept. I also open the floor to constructive criticism. This thread is to develop this idea. There is no need for bashing and flaming here.

Thank you!
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Zynerji
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by Zynerji » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:15 am

An extension of the brake duct would be most obvious...

Gerhardsa
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by Gerhardsa » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:15 pm

Interesting topic.

Its something that is incredibly hard to get around or reduce I would imagine.

That spray (almost vapor like blanket) will just always be there and be difficult to look through no matter where you disburse it to.

Where do you deflect it to? To the sides? Then you can at least sort of see the car in front I suppose, but then you try and overtake said car, pulling out of the slipstream. Now, you can't see anything again, because the spray gets deflected where your car is now positioned.(like going past a truck on the highway when it rains like a mother.) Impossible to see anything.

I guess the real problem is where to direct the spray, and if its possible at all to alleviate the problem, and not just solve one thing which creates another problem, or "shifts" the problem to another are when following a car in the rain.

dodds_turbo
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by dodds_turbo » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:21 pm

Interesting idea, I look forward to seeing your proposed concept ideas.

It is something that the FIA could set out the primary purpose (spray suppression) and the allowed envelope, then let the teams design something that suits their car, design philosophy and aero requirements. I'm sure the teams would welcome the ability to further channel the outwashed air and help reduce drag.

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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by flynfrog » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:32 pm

I think he is forgetting the spray from the wings and under body.

Image

Just_a_fan
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:45 pm

The tyres create the spray which is then lifted by the diffuser and rear wing. Not sure the floor or front wing create spray except when touch the ground.
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by flynfrog » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:07 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:45 pm
The tyres create the spray which is then lifted by the diffuser and rear wing. Not sure the floor or front wing create spray except when touch the ground.
Image

WaikeCU
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by WaikeCU » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Can tarmac be a solution? An innovative tarmac mixture that decreases the level of standing water? More like a sponge that absorbs it than water that just lays on top of the current tarmac waiting to be thrown up by cars driving over it.
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by zonk » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:39 pm

WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:19 pm
Can tarmac be a solution? An innovative tarmac mixture that decreases the level of standing water? More like a sponge that absorbs it than water that just lays on top of the current tarmac waiting to be thrown up by cars driving over it.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:42 pm

flynfrog wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:45 pm
The tyres create the spray which is then lifted by the diffuser and rear wing. Not sure the floor or front wing create spray except when touch the ground.
http://www.aero-news.net/images/content ... -0116a.JPG
Nice picture; proves nothing. Aircraft have wheels and, in that case, big engines that lift water off the surface. The wings aren't doing it.

F1 tyres each lift 25 litres / 65 litres per second (inter / full wet). That's 100 litres to 260 litres per second per car. That's a bath tub full of water each second. That's where the spray comes from.
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by flynfrog » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:47 am

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:42 pm
flynfrog wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:07 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:45 pm
The tyres create the spray which is then lifted by the diffuser and rear wing. Not sure the floor or front wing create spray except when touch the ground.
http://www.aero-news.net/images/content ... -0116a.JPG
Nice picture; proves nothing. Aircraft have wheels and, in that case, big engines that lift water off the surface. The wings aren't doing it.

F1 tyres each lift 25 litres / 65 litres per second (inter / full wet). That's 100 litres to 260 litres per second per car. That's a bath tub full of water each second. That's where the spray comes from.
I think its pretty clear in those pictures that the wings can and do have an effect. Look at the plume coming from the diffuser on the car and from the wing tips (well out side of the engine exhaust plume) on the plane. I am pretty sure wings that can provide 5g of df or lift a jumbo off the ground have more than enough effect to lift some water mist.

joshuagore
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by joshuagore » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:36 am

Are you suggesting something that looks like a concentrated wake? Is there any way this can be done in which it doesn't also become someones high pressure water canon to the face at the wrong angle? Also would this extend wet but drying races by increasing concentration of water and thus requiring more ambient wind to blow clear of track surface?

I've always wondered about collecting or better managing the water I think it sounds like an interesting challenge and could be cool and novel and improve racing. Thanks for bringing it up.

johnny comelately
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by johnny comelately » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:00 am

interesting you have raised this PZ. and particularly from the safety aspect.
Several years ago i designed a device (for want of a better word) that captured tyre spray from the front tyre of road race motorbikes and channeled it away from the rear tyre to give better traction. Couple of mobs looked at it but didnt seem to see any advantage, explaining how the front tyre is a clearer of water for the rear, apparently not looking at photos that show a dump of water directly onto the rear tyre! The same can be applied to cars with the benefit of reducing the tyre air wedge that is normally produced. The reduced spray affecting vision was only a by-product ha ha.

simieski
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by simieski » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:57 am

flynfrog wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:47 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:42 pm
Nice picture; proves nothing. Aircraft have wheels and, in that case, big engines that lift water off the surface. The wings aren't doing it.
F1 tyres each lift 25 litres / 65 litres per second (inter / full wet). That's 100 litres to 260 litres per second per car. That's a bath tub full of water each second. That's where the spray comes from.
I think its pretty clear in those pictures that the wings can and do have an effect. Look at the plume coming from the diffuser on the car and from the wing tips (well out side of the engine exhaust plume) on the plane. I am pretty sure wings that can provide 5g of df or lift a jumbo off the ground have more than enough effect to lift some water mist.
Remember while an f1 car is expanding airflow from the tarmac upwards the aircraft is doing the opposite. Mist from an aircraft on a wet runway predominately comes from three things; NLG/MLG tyres, eng exhaust and if it is landing (or aborted t/o) from the t/rev.
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bonjon1979
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Re: New Safety enchancing device: Wheel Spray deflectors

Post by bonjon1979 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:15 am

The underbody of the car creates suction, it's that which pulls up most of the moisture into the air. It's also what dries the track quicker. In places where that vapour isn't trapped by walls it disperses so while having spray at first can make life difficult it is also helping reduce spray as water is being removed from the track. As soon as you deflect it back down on track the water is going to be around for longer.