2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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GM7 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:01 pm
Based on the premise that Memento works with Liberty Media, their 3D model should be believable. If it is the case, it's very interesting to see this front wing iteration and those air outlet on the sidepods side.
Yeah the cooling louvers are back. See the grey box on the top of the orange sidepod volume - that's the "aperture" volume. Basically they can have an opening there provided it's smaller a particular planform area and hides a 2-d surface in plan view.
Image

As for the front wing, again makes sense. Similarly if you go a few pages back I posted an image of two surfaces which have to be hidden by the nose and wing. The nose one is a bit short of the wing so there's space to have wing but no nose. I assume they don't create the CAD themselves so it's likely from FOM.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:18 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:11 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:07 pm
Ah i am mistaken then, i bumped into some images that are in circulation that make believe 2022 cars are a lot shorter than the 2021 cars, but that is a scam then.

if i run into it again i'll post it
I think I've seen that somewhere too. In the one I saw the tyres were the same size as the '21 car, when actually they're Ø55mm bigger.

edit: this is the one I've seen
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4f661OWEAk ... ame=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4f6q90X0AM ... ame=medium
yes those are EXACTLY the images i was referring too, which surprised me as i didnt recollect, but did positively surprise me that they seem a lot shorter. i must say i did suspect a bit, as the cockpit seemed smaller too but wasnt sure. unfortunately no change then. too bad. i would really like to see shorter f1 cars.
I also had high hopes that they'd be shorter. But unfortunately no.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Aesthetics aside, I'm quite excited to see the new cars on track and to see how they perform. It will be interesting both to see the ultimate lap times (and they'll no doubt tumble over the first year or two), but also how they perform in wheel to wheel racing. If they work as intended, DRS should become a thing of the past, for example.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:04 am
Aesthetics aside, I'm quite excited to see the new cars on track and to see how they perform. It will be interesting both to see the ultimate lap times (and they'll no doubt tumble over the first year or two), but also how they perform in wheel to wheel racing. If they work as intended, DRS should become a thing of the past, for example.
I agree, im also very excited to see the new cars, and really hope they can race much closer as intended

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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GM7 wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:01 pm
Based on the premise that Memento works with Liberty Media, their 3D model should be believable. If it is the case, it's very interesting to see this front wing iteration and those air outlet on the sidepods side.

https://i.postimg.cc/XJS7XVLZ/Back.png
https://i.postimg.cc/PJdXz2BT/Frontview.png
https://i.postimg.cc/B6TZKd7m/Side.png
I have a feeling that cars will be massively different. Teams finding tricks or loopholes that the FIA didn't think of.

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:21 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:18 pm
yes those are EXACTLY the images i was referring too, which surprised me as i didnt recollect, but did positively surprise me that they seem a lot shorter. i must say i did suspect a bit, as the cockpit seemed smaller too but wasnt sure. unfortunately no change then. too bad. i would really like to see shorter f1 cars.
I also had high hopes that they'd be shorter. But unfortunately no.
I see complaints of the cars being too long and too heavy quite often, even from drivers.
I'm sure the FIA will be quick to address it, it only took them 30-40 years to address the inability to follow issue, which is a problem since the eighties.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:59 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:21 am
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:18 pm
yes those are EXACTLY the images i was referring too, which surprised me as i didnt recollect, but did positively surprise me that they seem a lot shorter. i must say i did suspect a bit, as the cockpit seemed smaller too but wasnt sure. unfortunately no change then. too bad. i would really like to see shorter f1 cars.
I also had high hopes that they'd be shorter. But unfortunately no.
I see complaints of the cars being too long and too heavy quite often, even from drivers.
I'm sure the FIA will be quick to address it, it only took them 30-40 years to address the inability to follow issue, which is a problem since the eighties.
:lol: :lol: :lol: and we're not even sure they have addressed that yet.
#aerogandalf
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Hoffman900
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:13 pm
mzso wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:59 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:21 am


I also had high hopes that they'd be shorter. But unfortunately no.
I see complaints of the cars being too long and too heavy quite often, even from drivers.
I'm sure the FIA will be quick to address it, it only took them 30-40 years to address the inability to follow issue, which is a problem since the eighties.
:lol: :lol: :lol: and we're not even sure they have addressed that yet.
Exactly. This is all TBD, but I'm not holding my breath.

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Hoffman900 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:35 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:13 pm
mzso wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:59 pm

I see complaints of the cars being too long and too heavy quite often, even from drivers.
I'm sure the FIA will be quick to address it, it only took them 30-40 years to address the inability to follow issue, which is a problem since the eighties.
:lol: :lol: :lol: and we're not even sure they have addressed that yet.
Exactly. This is all TBD, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think Ross Brawn is someone who knows how to guide the aerodynamics towards a specific goal, and knows how to spot potential for cheats and loopholes.
Maybe it wouldn't be as effective as the numbers they claimed, but I would be very surprised if it would be as thoroughly ineffective as the 2009 regs were.

Plus they said that further changes are to come if the current ones are not enough.

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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On a different note:

So last year they decided F1 teams can't develop for 2022, but what does that mean? All the vague references I find refer to "ban on aerdynamic development".
I expect that it means ban on wind tunnels and CFD. But otherwise what? They can't stop them from running some CFD on PCs. Or draw drawings via CAD or on paper.

I also wonder what the cost cap means. Since senior members are exempt is RB for example working Newey on overtime without any limitation and running his ideas in bulk in the wind tunnel?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:34 am
Hoffman900 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:35 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:13 pm


:lol: :lol: :lol: and we're not even sure they have addressed that yet.
Exactly. This is all TBD, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think Ross Brawn is someone who knows how to guide the aerodynamics towards a specific goal, and knows how to spot potential for cheats and loopholes.
Maybe it wouldn't be as effective as the numbers they claimed, but I would be very surprised if it would be as thoroughly ineffective as the 2009 regs were.

Plus they said that further changes are to come if the current ones are not enough.
ARAIK the technical side is being handled by Pat Symonds not Ross Brawn. Brawn's role is management, not to say he's not offering anything but he's delegating most of the research and development. Jason Somerville is heading the aero research under Symonds.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:01 pm
ARAIK the technical side is being handled by Pat Symonds not Ross Brawn. Brawn's role is management, not to say he's not offering anything but he's delegating most of the research and development. Jason Somerville is heading the aero research under Symonds.
My impression is that he's overseeing the the whole thing, which is a lot like what he did for like half his career, the really successful half. Which I would expect would mean he ultimately decides which paths they go on and which they don't.

Sevach
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:01 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:34 am
Hoffman900 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:35 pm


Exactly. This is all TBD, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think Ross Brawn is someone who knows how to guide the aerodynamics towards a specific goal, and knows how to spot potential for cheats and loopholes.
Maybe it wouldn't be as effective as the numbers they claimed, but I would be very surprised if it would be as thoroughly ineffective as the 2009 regs were.

Plus they said that further changes are to come if the current ones are not enough.
ARAIK the technical side is being handled by Pat Symonds not Ross Brawn. Brawn's role is management, not to say he's not offering anything but he's delegating most of the research and development. Jason Somerville is heading the aero research under Symonds.
Wasn't it Tombazis in the aero?

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:38 pm
jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:01 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:34 am


I think Ross Brawn is someone who knows how to guide the aerodynamics towards a specific goal, and knows how to spot potential for cheats and loopholes.
Maybe it wouldn't be as effective as the numbers they claimed, but I would be very surprised if it would be as thoroughly ineffective as the 2009 regs were.

Plus they said that further changes are to come if the current ones are not enough.
ARAIK the technical side is being handled by Pat Symonds not Ross Brawn. Brawn's role is management, not to say he's not offering anything but he's delegating most of the research and development. Jason Somerville is heading the aero research under Symonds.
Wasn't it Tombazis in the aero?
Tombazis is head of single seater matters at the FIA. Though he consulted with FOM - getting them the 2017 Manor model to start their testing from - before getting that job.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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I note Newey said (apparently) that there "isn't much to find" in these 2022 aero regulations?

Would it be fair to expect all the 2022 F1 cars to all have more or less the same aerodynamic performance properties (like, in the extreme case, in say Indycar where they are all exactly identical), and the points of difference in competitiveness to be centred around suspension tuning and power units? :?:

Although, the gearbox housing and suspension geometry will stay play a role in aerodynamic performance in F1... :wink: