2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Hoffman900
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BassVirolla wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:49 am
Is not allowed to have a rig to support and fit the tire? It's common practice with trucks, because of heavy wheels.

I suspect it would be fairly easy to design a wheeled and guided rig to easily and quickly fit the wheels.
The NASCAR pit crews have been using wheel/tire combos that weigh 23kg’s. They’ll be fine, but will likely need to put on some muscle.

NASCAR pit crews have found a place for athletes who couldn’t make it to the NFL but have the size and musculature. Might see pit crews looking more like rugby players..

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Probably not. You see the wec pit crew running with 2 wheels and some of them look rather skinny
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"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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BassVirolla
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Well, I was thinking more in making pit stops faster / more consistent. The fact that the "thinking trigger" was the wheel weight is anecdotic. :lol:

I was even thinking in a rig with the impact driver integrated, and take the rig, the wheel and the "gun" together to the car, eliminating the possibility of bad engaging of the nut with the driver.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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The new cars drive more like GT cars, and the tunnels are incredibly sensitive to ride height.

Image

If the air pressure ahead of the tunnel throat is twice the pressure at the throat exit, you will have choked flow. This means that ride height control, and creating a strong counter clockwise vortex to travel the length of the car will be the big aero challenge.
Saishū kōnā

michl420
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Is there a minimum rear wing size or can the teams run a small wing like the Red Bull monza wing? (I know it must be curved )

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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No minimum size to the upper rear wing, but the beam wing has to have a minimum planform area.

The rear wing doesn't have to be curved, but the central section can have more camber than the tips because of the RS-RWEP.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

Hoffman900
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:32 pm
The new cars drive more like GT cars, and the tunnels are incredibly sensitive to ride height.

https://files.catbox.moe/5679d4.jpg

If the air pressure ahead of the tunnel throat is twice the pressure at the throat exit, you will have choked flow. This means that ride height control, and creating a strong counter clockwise vortex to travel the length of the car will be the big aero challenge.
"If" does it mean it's possible within the rules? That's all that really matters.

I think a lot of us know what CP is.

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west52keep64
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Here are some recent quotes from the drivers.

Bottas:
Referencing his run in the Mercedes sim earlier this year, and the Alfa try-out a few months ago, Bottas said: “At least at that point, it felt like the cars are a bit off in terms of downforce.

“But the overall feeling, at least in the sim, wasn't that dissimilar in either of the simulators. We can't simulate following other cars and stuff like that, but it’s not crazy different. Maybe still a bit less downforce but, like I said, that will change.”
Norris:
Bottas’ comments are in contrast to McLaren driver Lando Norris, who reckoned the new F1 cars feel quite similar to drive to F2.

“Definitely there will be a slightly different style,” said Norris recently when asked by Autosport about the differences.

“I don't think it'll be as nice to drive in a way. I think it'll be a little bit more on the limit in terms of pushing and so on. A little bit like F2 in a way, I think, where you see more fighting the car and stuff.
Hulkenberg:
“They aimed to be a bit slower, more challenging to drive, to have more focus on drivers that can make a difference rather than car performance and aerodynamics dominate,” he said in a LinkedIn piece.

“From my initial experience, however, the new cars are pretty damn fast and not necessarily slower than the last generation. The driving experience hasn’t changed that much either, at least in the simulator.

“It will be very interesting to see whether these cars can really follow the car in front better. In the simulator, the cornering speeds are extremely high, so the risk of “dirty air” is still given and it’s difficult for me to imagine that following another car comfortably at these speeds will be easy.

OO7
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Vyssion wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:10 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:34 am
Expecting the pit stop crews to bulk up this winter :lol:
May I introduce you to my fellow Aussie, Hugh Jackman... errr, I mean Huge Jackman :lol:

https://img.ifunny.co/images/0dffbbbc00 ... bf28_1.jpg
:lol:

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mclaren111
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Speaking of the length of F1 cars, does the 2022 regulations have the same incentive for creating long wheelbase cars, as the 2017 regulations did?
2017-2021 cars had flat floors, and the cars got longer to increase the surface area for the low pressure underneath to act on, they also got longer because of the outwash philosophy, effectively increasing the time you had to get rid of the dirty wake, before it reached the rear of the car.

In 2022 we don't have flat floors, and outwash is practically impossible, so will we actually see a short wheelbase concept by one or more teams?? To have the upper hand on tighter tracks???

wogx
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Remember about CoG, teams were using longer gearboxes to push rear axle ̶a̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶r̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ rearwards, to place CoG in a sensible sweet spot, considering total car mass/car lenght/polar moment of inertia.

EDIT: I should have written it this way at the beginning. English is not my main language, some inaccuracies creep in sometimes, and that's not desirable on a technical forum.
Last edited by wogx on Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

CMSMJ1
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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wogx wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:08 am
Remember about CoG, teams were using longer gearboxes to push rear axle as far as they could.
The polar moment of inertia is impacted by longer cars though isn't it? There must be a sweet spot, but I suspect that the massive aero gains from longer floors manages to trump everything else.
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Blackout
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:50 am
Speaking of the length of F1 cars, does the 2022 regulations have the same incentive for creating long wheelbase cars, as the 2017 regulations did?
2017-2021 cars had flat floors, and the cars got longer to increase the surface area for the low pressure underneath to act on, they also got longer because of the outwash philosophy, effectively increasing the time you had to get rid of the dirty wake, before it reached the rear of the car.

In 2022 we don't have flat floors, and outwash is practically impossible, so will we actually see a short wheelbase concept by one or more teams?? To have the upper hand on tighter tracks???
It will also depend on the tire performance and the weight distribution.
Is the 2022 weight distribution the same as 2021 or more rearward/forward?
And will the width of the front tires be reduced or not? there seem to be conflicting infos about this.
Anyways, teams will probably still want to have the narrowest sidepods and coke bottle, so they'll still want narrow and long fuel tank and Gbox IMO ---> so they'll go for maximum weelbase IMO

Edit:
2021
The weight applied on the front and rear wheels must not be less than the weight specified in
Article 4.1 factored by 0.455 and 0.535 respectively at all times during the qualifying practice
session. Rounding will be to nearest 0.5kg.
2022
With the car resting on a horizontal plane the mass measured at the front and rear axles must
not be less than the mass specified in Article 4.1 factored by 0.440 and 0.540 respectively at
all times during the qualifying practice session. Rounding will be to nearest 0.5kg.
Then weight bias will move rearwards. So maybe teams will have more confidence in achieving the mandated weight distribution even with a shorter wheelbase, thanks to the increased minimum weight too :?:

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Stu
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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I wondered about the very exact nature of the wording with that part of the regs. During qualifying the cars are run with very low fuel levels, I wonder how much impact an extra 100kg of fuel has on the weight distribution?
Basic maths suggests that a longer fuel tank will increase rearward weight distribution (as it is located behind the centre of the car), whereas a shorter/wider tank will reduce that effect.
The primary effect of the maximum wheelbase will be on ‘bell-housing’ length.
I will have a look and check, but there are potential aero benefits to a shorter wheelbase if it positively affects the underfloor
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….