2022 Aero Thread

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mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:26 am
jjn9128 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:37 pm
The wheelbase could easily have been limited to 3200-3400mm. We've all seen the gearbox case is ~1m long these days. Could even have been shorter as they run a narrower/longer fuel cell to shrink the sidepod width.
Teams complained and the FIA foolishly gave in.
What do you base this on? Also, if they did, why did they complain?

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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mzso wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:22 pm
Sevach wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:26 am
Teams complained and the FIA foolishly gave in.
What do you base this on? Also, if they did, why did they complain?
I suspect because the teams are selfish and do not wish to redesign their gearbox housings and radiators layouts. :evil:

Sevach
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:04 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:22 pm
Sevach wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:26 am
Teams complained and the FIA foolishly gave in.
What do you base this on? Also, if they did, why did they complain?
I suspect because the teams are selfish and do not wish to redesign their gearbox housings and radiators layouts. :evil:
That is their logic, it would be too "difficult and costly" to make the cars that short.
FIA who intended to force smaller wheelbases gave in.

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:02 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:04 pm
mzso wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:22 pm

What do you base this on? Also, if they did, why did they complain?
I suspect because the teams are selfish and do not wish to redesign their gearbox housings and radiators layouts. :evil:
That is their logic, it would be too "difficult and costly" to make the cars that short.
FIA who intended to force smaller wheelbases gave in.
They design new gearboxes every year anyway. And the 2022 designs are completely new, and nothing is carry over, so that sounds like a bad excuse to me. I'm really disappointed FIA caved in, to me an F1 car should be aesthetically pleasing too, and the current cars look stupid being this long ...

cheeRS
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:42 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:01 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Looks like F1 is going to be merging with Indy sometime around 2025. Basically a spec series with little for the teams to do other than turn up and polish the paintwork.
That controls cost, what's wrong with that?
It's not F1. F1 isn't a spec series. Quite simple really.
True, but something's got to give, eventually. I mean, you could say "keep it F1!!!" but if all the customer teams drop out and it's a grid of 6-8 cars... who cares if it's "F1".

Unless you're a big Merc fan (like I am), you want change and closer racing . Everyone (that's not a merc fan) complains that Merc has dominated for close to a decade. I could easily say "well, that's what F1 is, not a spec series", but...

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Holm86
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Re: 2021 Aero Thread

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cheeRS wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:06 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:42 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:01 pm


That controls cost, what's wrong with that?
It's not F1. F1 isn't a spec series. Quite simple really.
True, but something's got to give, eventually. I mean, you could say "keep it F1!!!" but if all the customer teams drop out and it's a grid of 6-8 cars... who cares if it's "F1".

Unless you're a big Merc fan (like I am), you want change and closer racing . Everyone (that's not a merc fan) complains that Merc has dominated for close to a decade. I could easily say "well, that's what F1 is, not a spec series", but...
You don't need to turn it into a spec series to attract teams. You just need to make it affordable.
A budget cap is a good thing, but with a cap in place, I don't see any reason to have such restrictive regulations.

Right now I think the power units are whats keeping manufactureres away from formula one, and that needs to be fixed.
As much as I love the complexities of the curren PU, what F1 needs is an affordable, simpler and better sounding PU for people to get interested in F1 again

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Also the power unit and chassis rules need to be thought holistically. No point in the next power unit rules making less power if the 2022 cars make more drag (with bigger tyres they are draggier!), the cars will be slower. As aerodynamic drag is the main reason cars can't race going towards a draggy concept doesn't help anyway (they use the aero at the rear of the car to move the wake away from where it's harmful but it's still less efficient).

For me lightweight, less powerful but more efficient cars is the way to go. The fuel limit should be coming down too. Move the KERS to the front axle and limit the length to 5m. I'd keep the budget cap where it is but include driver and team boss salaries.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:21 am
Also the power unit and chassis rules need to be thought holistically. No point in the next power unit rules making less power if the 2022 cars make more drag (with bigger tyres they are draggier!), the cars will be slower. As aerodynamic drag is the main reason cars can't race going towards a draggy concept doesn't help anyway (they use the aero at the rear of the car to move the wake away from where it's harmful but it's still less efficient).

For me lightweight, less powerful but more efficient cars is the way to go. The fuel limit should be coming down too. Move the KERS to the front axle and limit the length to 5m. I'd keep the budget cap where it is but include driver and team boss salaries.
The diameter of the tire increases slightly right?? But the front tires are becoming narrower

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:21 am
For me lightweight, less powerful but more efficient cars is the way to go. The fuel limit should be coming down too. Move the KERS to the front axle and limit the length to 5m....
the MGU-K makes use of the 8 gears - to keep the voltage high and so minimise/stabilise the current requirement
and improves efficiency at partial ICE power

front axle KERS throws away these efficiency benefits
and opens a can of regulatory worms (to prevent ABS-like and/or smart diff effects etc etc)
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sevach
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:39 am
Sevach wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:02 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:04 pm


I suspect because the teams are selfish and do not wish to redesign their gearbox housings and radiators layouts. :evil:
That is their logic, it would be too "difficult and costly" to make the cars that short.
FIA who intended to force smaller wheelbases gave in.
They design new gearboxes every year anyway. And the 2022 designs are completely new, and nothing is carry over, so that sounds like a bad excuse to me. I'm really disappointed FIA caved in, to me an F1 car should be aesthetically pleasing too, and the current cars look stupid being this long ...
I don't know what it would do for looks, but a potentially more agile and nervous car would be great for us.

And yeah bad excuse, i agree.

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Holm86
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:11 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:39 am
Sevach wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:02 pm


That is their logic, it would be too "difficult and costly" to make the cars that short.
FIA who intended to force smaller wheelbases gave in.
They design new gearboxes every year anyway. And the 2022 designs are completely new, and nothing is carry over, so that sounds like a bad excuse to me. I'm really disappointed FIA caved in, to me an F1 car should be aesthetically pleasing too, and the current cars look stupid being this long ...
I don't know what it would do for looks, but a potentially more agile and nervous car would be great for us.

And yeah bad excuse, i agree.
The more agile and nervous cars was also my main reason back when I started advocating for shorter cars :lol:
But now they just look ridiculous too.
If you look at the cars before the hybrid era, the cars was much more responsive in changing directions, and I would definitely want that to come back, so I totally agree with you

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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^ this imo f1 shot itself in the foot by showing races from v10 era in lockdown. So much better looking / sounding / looked tricky to drive.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Holm86 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:32 am
The diameter of the tire increases slightly right?? But the front tires are becoming narrower
Increasing from 670mm to 725mm is quite a big increase. The width change is 305mm to 275mm iirc
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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Sevach wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:11 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:39 am
Sevach wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:02 pm


That is their logic, it would be too "difficult and costly" to make the cars that short.
FIA who intended to force smaller wheelbases gave in.
They design new gearboxes every year anyway. And the 2022 designs are completely new, and nothing is carry over, so that sounds like a bad excuse to me. I'm really disappointed FIA caved in, to me an F1 car should be aesthetically pleasing too, and the current cars look stupid being this long ...
I don't know what it would do for looks, but a potentially more agile and nervous car would be great for us.

And yeah bad excuse, i agree.
It would be a single line in the regs: Max lenght 4.3 meters. And just be done with it.
I see few data about car length, but on this website both the 1986 (bulky turbo) Ferrari and the 1993 (pre re-fuelling, but a lot slimmer) is claimed to be just under 4.3 meters.
I can't see why would present day cars need to be longer, when they could carry around a huge tank 220 liters of fuel (like a 100 liters more) with a 4.3 meter car. The present ones are getting close to 6 meters...

mzso
mzso
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Re: 2022 Aero Thread

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:32 am
The diameter of the tire increases slightly right?? But the front tires are becoming narrower
Increasing from 670mm to 725mm is quite a big increase. The width change is 305mm to 275mm iirc
Well, more tire thread surface means it should be easier to make more durable tires. Maybe for once Pirelli succeeds.