Twin Keel Suspension system

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wmm
wmm
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003, 19:51
Location: gozo , malta

Twin Keel Suspension system

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HI Everybody.

Can someone explain to me a TWIN KEEL SUSPENSION SYSTEM? mclaren use it.

wmm

scarbs
scarbs
393
Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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Twin keels are more an aerodynamic solution that affects the chassis structure. As part of the front wing height changes a few years ago, teams ran into difficulties getting the front wing to produce enough downforce. As the centre section of the front wing is allowed to be lower, the team wanted to extract as much downforce from this section as possible. One problem was the wake from the wing was running into the chassis and the front lower suspension. Running a higher nose\chassis helped but the single central mounting of the lower wishbones was still an obstruction. Sauber pioneered twin keels (see below), where the single central mounting is split and the wishbones mount on two pick ups located at each corner of the chassis. Apart from creating shorter lower wishbones the suspension is otherwise unaltered. The twin keel design cleared up the area, but the downside was the chassis needed to be heavier for the same stiffness as a single keel layout, as this weight is quite low in the chassis this is not such a terrible situation.

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McLaren, Jordan, Jaguar and Arrows (2002) all run variations of the twin keel, In 2002 McLaren and Arrows (nee Minardi PS04) use the keels as part of the bargeboard layout (see below), but McLaren have since simplified their set up for 2003. For 2004 most teams have found better ways of regaining the downforce lost in 2001 and will no no longer use the lower central section on the front wing, this puts the gains from twin keels in doubt.

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SpeedTech
SpeedTech
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002, 13:31
Location: Australia

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8) Thanks for the explination of the twin keels design. It's been a while that I have been wondering how it works.
Scarbs keep the good work up on Racecar Engineering. Believe it or not it hits our shores down under :wink:

scarbs
scarbs
393
Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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Thanks for the comments, I know Racecar Engineering is a tricky one to get hold of, even in the UK...!

akbar21881
akbar21881
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Joined: 28 Jun 2003, 22:49
Location: bristol,uk

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is there is any magazine out there that is solely dedicated to f1 tech? so far i am the reader of racecar engineering and race tech but these two is motorsport technology.F1 Magazine only explain a bit of technical with interesting pictures and thats all,so is F1 racing magazine.if only there is amgazine out there that every month explaing F1,F1 and F1.......

scarbs
scarbs
393
Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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There is an italian newspaper type publication called soemthing liek F1 racing technology, but no magazine truly dedicated to the subject, thank god we have the internet.
But to be honest I doubt if you could get enough material out of the teams to fill a magazine on a monthly basis.

Mini Bernie
Mini Bernie
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Joined: 21 May 2003, 12:29
Location: Southampton Uni, Aero&Astro.

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It's not a magazine but theres a series of books released each year dating back to 98, covering the technical aspects of each F1 season, by Giorgio Piola, called 'Formula One Technical Analysis'
I think they go back further than that, but those books are only in Italian.

hope this is of interest.

EscortGT
EscortGT
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We get Racecar engineering over in the USA near me. Its amazing!! I swear i can just sit and read that thing cover to cover without stopping. (then go back and try and understand it all!!) DONT EVER STOP MAKING RACECAR ENGINEERING!!! if you do ill hunt you down and kill you all. well.. maybe just a few... ;-)

Jc

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Steven
Owner
Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

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I think I'm gonna look for it in Belgium... have never seen it before however :(

Becker4
Becker4
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Joined: 27 Aug 2003, 09:49
Location: san luis obispo, california, US

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yes, racecar engineering is AWESOME . . . . scarbs, didn't know you were involved with it, what do you do with them? also, your website scarbsf1 is simply incredible, i have learned so much from it, thanks so much for all the time and effort you have put into it . . . you should put it all together in a book when you done and publish it. i'd be a bestseller!

Guest
Guest
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scarbs site is this scarbs site is that, come on, everyone can read some books and copy some things no big deal scarbs is an f1 engineer? so what he really knows?

nothing personal scarbs


Edited by CFDRuss: This might not be intended as an offensive post but be careful how things are worded.

I don’t know to much about scarbs (as he never replies to my emails!!! haha, only messin mate) But even if he is not a Degree qualified engineer his knowledge could probably give most engineers a run for their experience. He researches new technology and writes for Race Car Engineer with true class. :D

scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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Dear Guest,
I take your point that my work gets a lot of mentions on the forum, its not my intention to eclipse other posters or hinder open debate in the forum. However alot of forum questions have been covered previously and areas I have researched through the teams. I run my site almost as an FAQ on these topics.

I'd also like to clear up my credentials, I am degree qualified in Mech engineering and have worked with in F1 with a IT supplier. however for the past four years I have been a Part time Journalist writing purely on the technical side of the sport. I get the chance to ask technical questions direct to the designers and get a lot of access to the cars themselves. In my writing I try to seperate my opinion (on how I think something works) from what I know to is accurate (from questioning the teams). Hence my words are not copied from a text book (as there aren't any on current F1 design) I research the cars designs and only speak out on subjects I really know about (i.e. not engines). I run my site and make posts here to share this knowledge "freely". I hope this clears up your point.

Scarbs...

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NickT
2
Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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Dear Guest,

My personal opinion is that Scarbs and his web site is an excellent resource that we should be exploiting to the full. He is in a unique position to analyse and disseminate the latest information available directly from the teams.

My point is his credentials and work stand up to close scrutiny and he is well respected within the industry, both by the teams and the magazines. I terms of this web site, I believe he has made a fantastically positive contribution. Yes there maybe more or bigger posts from Scarbs than some of the rest of us, but he has a lot more recent and relevant information available to him and a stock of recent articles, he has carefully researched, that answer some of our questions.

So Guest :shock: or whoever you are :oops: what are your credentials and what relevent experience do you have :?:

:twisted:
NickT

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NickT
2
Joined: 24 Sep 2003, 12:47
Location: Edinburgh, UK

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Dear Scarbs 8)

Keep up the good work :P ignore those who hide behind a Guest signature :evil: and are so obviously either jealous :evil: or ill informed :evil:

Good luck in turning your part time dream into a full time reality :D

Cheers
NickT

Guest
Guest
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í´m just an aerodinamic enginer