2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Sergej]

It confirms what I already thought and expected since last year. It'll be a year with no title fight for us. But it's ok after the past 4 years.

[organic]

It confirms what I already thought and expected since last year. It'll be a year with no title fight for us. But it's ok after the past 4 years.

I'm expecting to be 4th fastest at Australia

[pantherxxx]

Well, Max said after last year's Italian Grand Prix that both championships were not realistic. Yet, he still became the World Champion with a 63-point lead. In the last four races of 2024, Max was faster than Norris at three of the tracks. So, even the patchwork they did last year seemed to have solved their major problems. Maybe they won't win the first or second race, but they can still win the championship if the base car is good enough and the later upgrades work

@FDataAnalysis says that Red Bull's car had the lowest engine mode of all cars on the third day of testing. https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1896 ... 83/photo/1

[Cs98]

It confirms what I already thought and expected since last year. It'll be a year with no title fight for us. But it's ok after the past 4 years.

I'm expecting to be 4th fastest at Australia

It's typical underdog rhetoric, lower expectations in case of the worst case scenario. If Max really felt the car was a dud I think he would have more to say. He does not come across as a doomer, just deferential to another team, kind of like Hamilton when he was winning. I get the impression he thinks they are behind McLaren (no surprise), but not by miles. I didn't see anything in the data which tells me 4th best (I only look at Verstappen's times). We'll see in the first few races.

[pantherxxx]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/8-bil ... /10671596/

"Red Bull Racing uses Oracle's cloud technology to run up to eight billion simulations per race weekend, significantly improving race strategy and car setup. Oracle's high-performance computing allows Red Bull to simulate engine combustion and race scenarios, boosting simulation efficiency by 25%. This cloud-based infrastructure enables faster processing and global access, providing Red Bull with a technological edge."

[Emag]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/8-bil ... /10671596/

"Red Bull Racing uses Oracle's cloud technology to run up to eight billion simulations per race weekend, significantly improving race strategy and car setup. Oracle's high-performance computing allows Red Bull to simulate engine combustion and race scenarios, boosting simulation efficiency by 25%. This cloud-based infrastructure enables faster processing and global access, providing Red Bull with a technological edge."

PR bullshit. Oracle's cloud services are no better than Microsoft's or AWS.

[pantherxxx]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/8-bil ... /10671596/

"Red Bull Racing uses Oracle's cloud technology to run up to eight billion simulations per race weekend, significantly improving race strategy and car setup. Oracle's high-performance computing allows Red Bull to simulate engine combustion and race scenarios, boosting simulation efficiency by 25%. This cloud-based infrastructure enables faster processing and global access, providing Red Bull with a technological edge."

PR bullshit. Oracle's cloud services are no better than Microsoft's or AWS.

I disagree. Red Bull's partnership with Oracle is far more integrated than other F1 team sponsorships. Since Oracle became the title sponsor in 2021, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) has been deeply embedded in Red Bull's operations. This goes beyond just providing a generic cloud package. Oracle engineers work closely with Red Bull, tweaking technologies like Kubernetes to help scale simulations quickly and optimizing ARM-based computing for complex processes such as CFD and Monte Carlo simulations—executed at a massive scale.

In contrast, McLaren's AWS deal is more of a traditional client-vendor relationship. While McLaren does work with AWS through their McLaren Applied tech arm, AWS's involvement is not as hands-on. AWS provides the platform, but McLaren does the work. The AWS logos on McLaren’s pit gear indicate this is a sponsorship, not a deep technical partnership. There’s no evidence of AWS embedding engineers with McLaren’s F1 team in the same way Oracle is with Red Bull.

[dialtone]

Aws has more capacity in a single region than Oracle has with all its regions combined.

The service offering isn’t even remotely close, any analyst firm like Gartner would show you that AWS is superior to all other cloud providers but particularly oracle.

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/read-t ... -services/

(I’m on a plane this is the most recent quadrant i could find)

It’s not close, oracle is not close, even with a strategic partnership they simply don’t have the same breadth and capacity, if they bought all of oracle cloud they would still have less than what they could get from Amazon. But even on strategic partnership… what does it even mean? Most companies of this importance will have a phone line directly to the AWS CEO if they wanted to talk or were unhappy about something. In fact AWS’s pro services probably gives them free engineers to build their applications. I know because my small, comparatively, startup had the ability to email anyone of AWS execs and CEO and they would reply, I know many of them and count some of them as friends, and this isn’t to brag but I’m a nobody and had this, they aren’t nobodies like me.

It’s all PR nonsense.

[Emag]

Aws has more capacity in a single region than Oracle has with all its regions combined.

The service offering isn’t even remotely close, any analyst firm like Gartner would show you that AWS is superior to all other cloud providers but particularly oracle.

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/read-t ... -services/

(I’m on a plane this is the most recent quadrant i could find)

It’s not close, oracle is not close, even with a strategic partnership they simply don’t have the same breadth and capacity, if they bought all of oracle cloud they would still have less than what they could get from Amazon. But even on strategic partnership… what does it even mean? Most companies of this importance will have a phone line directly to the AWS CEO if they wanted to talk or were unhappy about something. In fact AWS’s pro services probably gives them free engineers to build their applications. I know because my small, comparatively, startup had the ability to email anyone of AWS execs and CEO and they would reply, I know many of them and count some of them as friends, and this isn’t to brag but I’m a nobody and had this, they aren’t nobodies like me.

It’s all PR nonsense.

Exactly, I am actually employed on the field and it was not a backhanded comment at all. Oracle cloud services are not up to par to AWS but I would argue even for Microsoft Azure. Ironically I found Google wasn't on the same level in terms of options, but the ones they do offer are pretty good. I did not mention Google though, because I do not have any professional experience with them in the last 3-4 years, so things might have changed.

But really, whenever you see articles boasting about cloud-accelerated computations, it's almost always PR related. They consider the "cloud" as this magical thing that makes everything faster and better when that isn't really the case. What cloud services offer are convenience, scalability and it also saves you money on the long run. In terms of performance, it won't really give you anything more than an equivalent on-premise setup.

Edit :

Since I also noticed this on the initial reply :

Oracle engineers work closely with Red Bull, tweaking technologies like Kubernetes to help scale simulations quickly and optimizing ARM-based computing for complex processes such as CFD and Monte Carlo simulations—executed at a massive scale.

- I am assuming you got this from the article. I know those buzz-words sound cool and all, but they're not in itself anything that gives anyone an advantage. Kubernetes is just a container-orchestrator. I can set you up a system which can do 90% of whatever they're using Kubernetes for in Docker at my laptop. It just won't have the resources to perform as well.

- ARM-based computing doesn't give you any tangible edge over using x86 processors (assuming equal clock speeds and whatnot). If anything, it may actually perform worse on intensive tasks. Nothing is as good as AMD Epyc processors when it comes to servers at the moment.

[organic]

It confirms what I already thought and expected since last year. It'll be a year with no title fight for us. But it's ok after the past 4 years.

I'm expecting to be 4th fastest at Australia

It's typical underdog rhetoric, lower expectations in case of the worst case scenario. If Max really felt the car was a dud I think he would have more to say. He does not come across as a doomer, just deferential to another team, kind of like Hamilton when he was winning. I get the impression he thinks they are behind McLaren (no surprise), but not by miles. I didn't see anything in the data which tells me 4th best (I only look at Verstappen's times). We'll see in the first few races.

I think the launch car didn't work as they expected and they will find time with the first upgrade package. Til then it'll be hard

[Vettel165]

Just wait for Australia, I think Red Bull could suprise us with the car. I am quite optimistic, its a very long season. Also with this car it will easier to find the right setup, which was a major problem last year.

[Vettel165]

Well, Max said after last year's Italian Grand Prix that both championships were not realistic. Yet, he still became the World Champion with a 63-point lead. In the last four races of 2024, Max was faster than Norris at three of the tracks. So, even the patchwork they did last year seemed to have solved their major problems. Maybe they won't win the first or second race, but they can still win the championship if the base car is good enough and the later upgrades work

@FDataAnalysis says that Red Bull's car had the lowest engine mode of all cars on the third day of testing. https://x.com/FDataAnalysis/status/1896 ... 83/photo/1

Good point, we need to have more faith in our team. Of course nothing lasts forever as Seb said in 2013, but I really hope Max could still fight for the title this year. In the last 15 years Red Bull won 8 WDC, Mercedes 7 WDC. No other team could come close, or even take a single title. Also 2024 was for me a big miracle, I want another one.

[Paa]

I think the launch car didn't work as they expected and they will find time with the first upgrade package. Til then it'll be hard

If the car is not fast why do we think that the next upgrade package would make it fast? I mean, I guess there is a non-zero chance for that. But Red Bull had high expectations to last summer package (Hungaroring maybe?), then after the summer break, then Austin, then next year etc.

If they miss their mark multiple times in a row, then I think it will be less and less likely that they would find their way eventually (not the other way around).

Obviously, it is a bit early to speculate on this, so I'm cautiously optimistic for the first few races. But I also try to remain realistic and if car is not good on the first few races, then I think it's season over. Miracle packages are very rare.

[Wouter]

It's typical underdog rhetoric, lower expectations in case of the worst case scenario. If Max really felt the car was a dud I think he would have more to say. He does not come across as a doomer, just deferential to another team, kind of like Hamilton when he was winning. I get the impression he thinks they are behind McLaren (no surprise), but not by miles. I didn't see anything in the data which tells me 4th best (I only look at Verstappen's times). We'll see in the first few races.

.
Max wasn't happy at all, he seems a bit sad actually. He wasn't playing the underdog, that is not Max his style.
He said yesterday "I don't think we can fight for the win in Melbourne. I hope they can make some improvements in a few races."
So at the moment he doesn't know if there will be some improvements.

[ME4ME]

My takeaway from testing was basically that it seems Red Bull failed both to make the car more predictable as well as make a sufficient step in performance.

The RB20 was probably at its worst around Monza last year. They recovered some driveability with their Azerbaijan and Austin fixes, but to me the RB21 didn't seem any better. Sure they might've tried extreme setups day 3 of testing, but you don't put on a new component such as a floor or front wing and knowingly drive out with an undriveable car. You'd make a small adjustment to stay inside a balance window, otherwise you're testing worthless configurations that wouldn't be suitable to race anyway.

It's concerning that they haven't been able to improve kerb riding since 2023. Last year Wache specifically said ahead of the season that they had aimed to do just that but it didn't work out.

I think Mclaren will run away with both championships early in the season. Question is how they adapt to stricter wing load testing and possibly less flexible wings.