2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Tsunoda being "close" as some would like to imagine has come with the great expense of the car being nowhere. He's not close either. One could point to a number of reasons for why this is usually where Tsunoda qualified, and that Max was the outlier with whatever he was doing in the car in Q1 which handicapped him more than usual. Tsunoda said the balance was good. Max said it's understeering. Don't you see the problem here? When Max was happier with the balance he was fighting for poles. When Tsunoda is "happy", they almost got a double Q1 knockout. The people fantasizing over the closeness of this gap miss the forest from the trees.

Forget about Tsunoda and look at the big picture.

[continuum16]

The big picture is that the car is f****** slow and was outqualified by a rookie in a Sauber in a straight fight. The closeness of Tsunoda is more or less irrelevant even though it’s better that he was close than miles away. Perez qualified p16 last year and was over 8 tenths off of Max in Q1. Factually speaking the second driver is closer than at many points over the last 12 months but most critical is that the car is terrible. IIRC they always seem to have massive understeer here, ever since 2020, before the ground effect era. Perhaps they simply have not found a good setup for this track, idk. Not good for the present and the “nothing works as expected” comments is not good for the future.

edit: grammar

[euv2]

The big picture is that the car is f****** slow and was outqualified by a rookie in a Sauber in a straight fight. The closeness of Tsunoda is more or less irrelevant even though it’s better that he was close than miles away. Perez qualified p16 last year and was over 8 tenths off of Max in Q1. Factually speaking the second driver is closer than at many points over the last 12 months but most critical is that the car is terrible. IIRC they always seem to have massive understeer here, ever since 2020, before the ground effect era. Perhaps they simply have not found a good setup for this track, idk. Not good for the present and the “nothing works as expected” comments is not good for the future.

edit: grammar

Even the RB19 had to compromise the qualy setup for race pace and was beaten for pole. Redbulls philosophy these regs has been to compromise qualy for better race pace until MCL showed up and did both things well. RBR has been designing their cars with these setup rules in mind, they thought it was not possible to balance the car to be perfect in race and qualy.

[pantherxxx]

Now the main objective is to beat Leclerc and Russell in the overall championship. Even that will be difficult with this inferior car.

[AR3-GP]

Now the main objective is to beat Leclerc and Russell in the overall championship. Even that will be difficult with this inferior car.

What is the significance of this?

[Xyz22]

Tsunoda being "close" as some would like to imagine has come with the great expense of the car being nowhere. He's not close either. One could point to a number of reasons for why this is usually where Tsunoda qualified, and that Max was the outlier with whatever he was doing in the car in Q1 which handicapped him more than usual. Tsunoda said the balance was good. Max said it's understeering. Don't you see the problem here? When Max was happier with the balance he was fighting for poles. When Tsunoda is "happy", they almost got a double Q1 knockout. The people fantasizing over the closeness of this gap miss the forest from the trees.

Forget about Tsunoda and look at the big picture.

Tsunoda also said the car is terrible. It seems to me that they made the car a bit easier to drive (i.e. making the operating window bigger, which allowed Tsunoda to deliver decent lap times). It was just awful and slow this weekend. No speed and terrible balance.

[AR3-GP]

Tsunoda also said the car is terrible. It seems to me that they made the car a bit easier to drive (i.e. making the operating window bigger, which allowed Tsunoda to deliver decent lap times). It was just awful and slow this weekend. No speed and terrible balance.

Tsunoda's lap times were not "decent". He was out in Q1. His balance was not "terrible". He said it was "not that bad":

"I don't know. The car balance itself is not that bad. But just the grip level that the car is providing is very, very low. It's not the level that we normally feel.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/racing/ ... ce-2107993

[Dee]

Why is everyone freaking out though...

The Mclarens couldn't improve on the last lap, considering they have the best car, the Aston Martins are 5th/6th after qualifying 19th/20th in Spa and the top four were within 0.040.

Max was 0.38 away in a car that pretty much gets all its speed in fast corners, he was 0.7 away in Monaco.

This circuit was awful for this car last year and nothing much has changed.

None of the other circuits that are left are going to be like this, people need to get a grip!

[Xyz22]

Tsunoda also said the car is terrible. It seems to me that they made the car a bit easier to drive (i.e. making the operating window bigger, which allowed Tsunoda to deliver decent lap times). It was just awful and slow this weekend. No speed and terrible balance.

Tsunoda's lap times were not "decent". He was out in Q1. Tsunoda:

"I don't know. The car balance itself is not that bad. But just the grip level that the car is providing is very, very low. It's not the level that we normally feel.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/racing/ ... ce-2107993

By "decent" I meant relatively to Verstappen, of course.

[AR3-GP]

[venkyhere]

https://i.postimg.cc/hPpKm60h/image.png

[Rikhart]

https://i.postimg.cc/hPpKm60h/image.png

This right here is why Verstappen should be moving teams.

[Dee]

https://i.postimg.cc/hPpKm60h/image.png

This right here is why Verstappen should be moving teams.

Max will move teams, once he see's the best one to move to..

The question is, who will that be and will they have a seat available?

Ferrari - I think have a very strong chance of nailing next years regs and a seat will become available in 2027
Mercedes - On the engine side, will be very strong but will their design be? and a seat will be available there in 2027
Mclaren - My bet for having the best package next year with Merc engine and their design team BUT no seat available until 2028
Aston Martin - They have Newey but I don't think Honda engine will be as strong - seat available in 2027

The rest of the teams are not options imo

So he has at least 3 options to go to a team in 2027 if they are the winning ones...

[pantherxxx]

Red Bull’s RB21 clearly still has strong aerodynamic efficiency, especially in high-speed corners where downforce plays a bigger role. That’s what’s keeping them competitive on circuits like Silverstone or Suzuka, where fast-flowing sections dominate. Two wins and four poles amid handling issues in slow-speed corners is impressive and speaks to how good the baseline aero package is.

But the mechanical grip issue — probably stemming from suspension setup or floor stiffness — is killing them in low-speed traction zones. That, paired with poor tyre management (maybe overheating or inability to switch compounds into the right window), is what's making them vulnerable.

If they can sort out those mechanical and tyre-related gremlins without compromising their high-speed strengths, they’ll be fast again.

Rob Marshall was a major figure in Red Bull’s design team, particularly in the mechanical side of things. As Chief Engineering Officer, he played a key role not just in aero concepts but in translating them into a car that worked well mechanically — suspension geometry, compliance, ride behavior, how the floor interacts with varying track surfaces — all crucial in low-speed performance and tyre usage.

His move to McLaren last year might be showing its ripple effect now. McLaren has surged in both high- and low-speed performance, and Red Bull seems to have lost a bit of that “magic” mechanical balance that allowed their cars to rotate beautifully in tight corners while preserving tyres.

It’s very plausible that while Red Bull's aero department (even after losing Newey) remains strong, the loss of someone like Marshall is now being felt in how the chassis and suspension handle dynamic loads — especially under braking and traction zones.

If that’s the case, Red Bull will need someone to step up into that mechanical development role quickly, so they can make a better car for the 2026 regs.

[Dee]

Red Bull’s RB21 clearly still has strong aerodynamic efficiency, especially in high-speed corners where downforce plays a bigger role. That’s what’s keeping them competitive on circuits like Silverstone or Suzuka, where fast-flowing sections dominate. Two wins and four poles amid handling issues in slow-speed corners is impressive and speaks to how good the baseline aero package is.

But the mechanical grip issue — probably stemming from suspension setup or floor stiffness — is killing them in low-speed traction zones. That, paired with poor tyre management (maybe overheating or inability to switch compounds into the right window), is what's making them vulnerable.

If they can sort out those mechanical and tyre-related gremlins without compromising their high-speed strengths, they’ll be fast again.

Rob Marshall was a major figure in Red Bull’s design team, particularly in the mechanical side of things. As Chief Engineering Officer, he played a key role not just in aero concepts but in translating them into a car that worked well mechanically — suspension geometry, compliance, ride behavior, how the floor interacts with varying track surfaces — all crucial in low-speed performance and tyre usage.

His move to McLaren last year might be showing its ripple effect now. McLaren has surged in both high- and low-speed performance, and Red Bull seems to have lost a bit of that “magic” mechanical balance that allowed their cars to rotate beautifully in tight corners while preserving tyres.

It’s very plausible that while Red Bull's aero department (even after losing Newey) remains strong, the loss of someone like Marshall is now being felt in how the chassis and suspension handle dynamic loads — especially under braking and traction zones.

If that’s the case, Red Bull will need someone to step up into that mechanical development role quickly, so they can make a better car for the 2026 regs.

I 100% agree.

I think Marshall was always a key figure, he was with the team since 2006...

That's also why I put money on Mclaren next year..