2021 United States Grand Prix - Austin, Oct 22 - 24

[Sieper]

He has made so little this season. Incredible. Ofcourse they all do, Max as well, but a race like last one is how racing is meant to be. A tense start, max squeezed to the limit, Lewis repayed the favor when he had the turn, but both left the other alive and then a thrilling spectacle to watch (even if in the end there was no overtaking on track between the 2 fighting for the WDC).

[darkpino]

I wonder if RBR is running more downforce in general as it’s for them a lot more easier to follow closely? We’ve seen multiple times that Max can follow the Mercedes very closely for laps while the Mercedes isn’t able to follow the RB16B (or in Bottas his hands either other car) within a second without a massive tire advantage?

Mercedes being bad in traffic is a myth propagated by sky and channel 4 to absolve hamilton when he's unable to overtake a car ahead for whatever reason there may be. It's actually the other way around, red bull is the hardest car to overtake in because often times they're battling mercedes who has more straight line speed and red bull runs less downforce to compensate which further makes your job difficult in dirty air because you're sliding more. Today even with much more pace on medium everyone knew Verstappen was never going to overtake hamilton on back straight because they're simply too slow there.
Same thing happened in monza, red bull ran toothpick wings to compensate for being down on power which made Verstappen lose 0.6s-0.8s trough ascari every single lap compared to ricciardo and then he burned up his tyres and so on. It's a cascading effect.

There's been a single exception to this rule this year in France where red bull went nuts with their wing level which for the first time ever allowed them to defend themselves on straights, but that was mainly down to mercedes not yet sorting out their car at that time and had to go completely opposite direction with their wing level.

As i never watch Sky or Channel 4 it's not something i could have heard there... It's something I observated myself. Bottas is an example of it not being able to cut trough the field on Russia for example. But seasons before 2021 it was also obvious that Mercedes was the team to beat as long as they were starting from first row. If one of the cars didn't for whatever reason they got stuck pretty soon behind a different car and had to pass them by tactics.

So no it's not a myth in my opinion: the Mercedes has been bad in traffic for years. RBR is been able to follow cars closely also for years. And i was just wondering if it maybe had something to do with downforce levels.

[darkpino]

He has made so little this season. Incredible. Ofcourse they all do, Max as well, but a race like last one is how racing is meant to be. A tense start, max squeezed to the limit, Lewis repayed the favor when he had the turn, but both left the other alive and then a thrilling spectacle to watch (even if in the end there was no overtaking on track between the 2 fighting for the WDC).

I agree, purely seen from driver perspective Max is imo the one who deserves to be champion this year. Mistakes he solely made are down to an offtrack in Bahrain (if you want to count that) and an offtrack on Hungary i think. All others are up for debate if i'm not forgetting any other incidents.

[Tvetovnato]

I wonder if RBR is running more downforce in general as it’s for them a lot more easier to follow closely? We’ve seen multiple times that Max can follow the Mercedes very closely for laps while the Mercedes isn’t able to follow the RB16B (or in Bottas his hands either other car) within a second without a massive tire advantage?

Mercedes being bad in traffic is a myth propagated by sky and channel 4 to absolve hamilton when he's unable to overtake a car ahead for whatever reason there may be. It's actually the other way around, red bull is the hardest car to overtake in because often times they're battling mercedes who has more straight line speed and red bull runs less downforce to compensate which further makes your job difficult in dirty air because you're sliding more. Today even with much more pace on medium everyone knew Verstappen was never going to overtake hamilton on back straight because they're simply too slow there.
Same thing happened in monza, red bull ran toothpick wings to compensate for being down on power which made Verstappen lose 0.6s-0.8s trough ascari every single lap compared to ricciardo and then he burned up his tyres and so on. It's a cascading effect.

There's been a single exception to this rule this year in France where red bull went nuts with their wing level which for the first time ever allowed them to defend themselves on straights, but that was mainly down to mercedes not yet sorting out their car at that time and had to go completely opposite direction with their wing level.

As i never watch Sky or Channel 4 it's not something i could have heard there... It's something I observated myself. Bottas is an example of it not being able to cut trough the field on Russia for example. But seasons before 2021 it was also obvious that Mercedes was the team to beat as long as they were starting from first row. If one of the cars didn't for whatever reason they got stuck pretty soon behind a different car and had to pass them by tactics.

So no it's not a myth in my opinion: the Mercedes has been bad in traffic for years. RBR is been able to follow cars closely also for years. And i was just wondering if it maybe had something to do with downforce levels.

In Russia everyone had a problem passing, and Bottas is notorious for not being that good at passing people anyway. Look at Monza last year, Bottas was stuck all race behind slower cars, but when Lewis had to slice through, he had much less of a problem. And Barcelona this year, Hamilton was within a second of Verstappen during stint one without any problems. It just wasn’t enough of a delta to pass, just as yesterday for Max. The few times the Merc has been in traffic in the past few years, it has mostly been Bottas, so I would say it’s more driver related than car related.

[darkpino]

Hmm that might "color" my view on it... Thanks!

[basti313]

Mercedes being bad in traffic is a myth propagated by sky and channel 4 to absolve hamilton when he's unable to overtake a car ahead for whatever reason there may be. It's actually the other way around, red bull is the hardest car to overtake in because often times they're battling mercedes who has more straight line speed and red bull runs less downforce to compensate which further makes your job difficult in dirty air because you're sliding more. Today even with much more pace on medium everyone knew Verstappen was never going to overtake hamilton on back straight because they're simply too slow there.
Same thing happened in monza, red bull ran toothpick wings to compensate for being down on power which made Verstappen lose 0.6s-0.8s trough ascari every single lap compared to ricciardo and then he burned up his tyres and so on. It's a cascading effect.

There's been a single exception to this rule this year in France where red bull went nuts with their wing level which for the first time ever allowed them to defend themselves on straights, but that was mainly down to mercedes not yet sorting out their car at that time and had to go completely opposite direction with their wing level.

As i never watch Sky or Channel 4 it's not something i could have heard there... It's something I observated myself. Bottas is an example of it not being able to cut trough the field on Russia for example. But seasons before 2021 it was also obvious that Mercedes was the team to beat as long as they were starting from first row. If one of the cars didn't for whatever reason they got stuck pretty soon behind a different car and had to pass them by tactics.

So no it's not a myth in my opinion: the Mercedes has been bad in traffic for years. RBR is been able to follow cars closely also for years. And i was just wondering if it maybe had something to do with downforce levels.

In Russia everyone had a problem passing, and Bottas is notorious for not being that good at passing people anyway. Look at Monza last year, Bottas was stuck all race behind slower cars, but when Lewis had to slice through, he had much less of a problem. And Barcelona this year, Hamilton was within a second of Verstappen during stint one without any problems. It just wasn’t enough of a delta to pass, just as yesterday for Max. The few times the Merc has been in traffic in the past few years, it has mostly been Bottas, so I would say it’s more driver related than car related.

I think it is also strongly depending on who you want to pass.
I am still looking for an onboard, but in the live timing you could see Ham getting closer in T2 to T6, within DRS range and suddenly opend up to way above one second after T7. Looked like intentional.

[darkpino]

As i never watch Sky or Channel 4 it's not something i could have heard there... It's something I observated myself. Bottas is an example of it not being able to cut trough the field on Russia for example. But seasons before 2021 it was also obvious that Mercedes was the team to beat as long as they were starting from first row. If one of the cars didn't for whatever reason they got stuck pretty soon behind a different car and had to pass them by tactics.

So no it's not a myth in my opinion: the Mercedes has been bad in traffic for years. RBR is been able to follow cars closely also for years. And i was just wondering if it maybe had something to do with downforce levels.

In Russia everyone had a problem passing, and Bottas is notorious for not being that good at passing people anyway. Look at Monza last year, Bottas was stuck all race behind slower cars, but when Lewis had to slice through, he had much less of a problem. And Barcelona this year, Hamilton was within a second of Verstappen during stint one without any problems. It just wasn’t enough of a delta to pass, just as yesterday for Max. The few times the Merc has been in traffic in the past few years, it has mostly been Bottas, so I would say it’s more driver related than car related.

I think it is also strongly depending on who you want to pass.
I am still looking for an onboard, but in the live timing you could see Ham getting closer in T2 to T6, within DRS range and suddenly opend up to way above one second after T7. Looked like intentional.

The last 5 laps i think i was looking onboard with Lewis yesterday. He basically gone into T8 en T9 too hot which made him slide which ofcourse made him lose time. Same for T14, 15 and 16.

[PlatinumZealot]

The Mercedes was sliding in FP2, it was sliding in Q3 even Max noticed it sliding in the opening laps! The car was gimped so it could survived the bumps.

[Scorpaguy]

Austin? Hard to tell, as I was trackside with narrow perspective, but it seemed a "normal" race with no wild cards. Lewis and Max fast, Checo fading after 10 (possibly feeling ill) and Bot his typically poor-overtaking self. Seemed a standard F1 affair with pit strategy making the difference at the front. Quali was excellent, the race OK...but the crowd went wild over Ric's donut infused lapping of Dale's car.

I think the real winners may have been Liberty Media...with close to (or just a bit over) 400,000 over the weekend, more Yank events may be forthcoming (likely at crap tracks). Many vendors had sold out of booze, food, and swag by midday Saturday! I continued to hear rumors of 3 US GP's were in the future. Unfortunately, I see this a blow to our historical venues (which are not crap tracks). The times, they are a changin'.

BTW...the 15-mile bus ride to the hotel took 3.5 hours.

[Ryar]

Something unlucky needs to happen to max for him to drop 25 points. And even if he drops 25 points, he still has the car to claw back a 13 point deficit to Lewis and win the championship.

No no no. Max does not need DNF as you wish, he has already lost the victory on the last laps in Baku with Hamilton's third place. If the champion hadn't made a mistake, which cost him 18-25 points (depending on the finish of Perez), Max would still stay behind in the championship. Maybe you wish that it is not Max, but Ham, who goes out of the race or his car gets accidentally damaged, as it happened in bowling in Hungary, huh? I think there will be good footage for TV how Mercedes with a damaged car heroically fighting wheel-to-wheel with Schumacher on the Haas, right?

No need to wish other DNFs, by doing this you belittle both Hamilton and Mercedes. Let the fate of the title be decided in a fair fight and not because of retirements and damage to cars. In Austin there was such a great race and I want the same in the last 5 races.

stop attacking another poster for your own inability to read correctly. he doesn't want a DNF for max, he's only saying how max has a comfortable lead for the championship

i mean for real, really uncalled for behaviour.

Ringo has said it multiple times on race threads and in Mercedes threads. Not sure what you are defending. The right thing to ask for, is for both Lewis and Mercedes to stop making silly mistakes, not wishing bad luck to Max and RB.

[taperoo2k]

I don't think enough people picked up on what a good decision it was to pit Verstappen when they did. It meant they only had to go through the traffic once, compared to Hamilton having to go through them twice.

I could see what Red Bull were attempting to do with the early pit stop, get track position and then encourage Max to keep the tyres alive in the final stint to fend off a charging Lewis. It was perhaps the most mature drive we've yet seen from Max to date and a reminder that Red Bull can pull off sublime Pitstops that start out as a gamble but translates into race wins. I'm enjoying the title battle, don't actually mind who wins.

I hope the title is decided by ontrack action, not reliability issues. But it's F1, reliability will come into it somewhere in the last few races.

[Just_a_fan]

No no no. Max does not need DNF as you wish, he has already lost the victory on the last laps in Baku with Hamilton's third place. If the champion hadn't made a mistake, which cost him 18-25 points (depending on the finish of Perez), Max would still stay behind in the championship. Maybe you wish that it is not Max, but Ham, who goes out of the race or his car gets accidentally damaged, as it happened in bowling in Hungary, huh? I think there will be good footage for TV how Mercedes with a damaged car heroically fighting wheel-to-wheel with Schumacher on the Haas, right?

No need to wish other DNFs, by doing this you belittle both Hamilton and Mercedes. Let the fate of the title be decided in a fair fight and not because of retirements and damage to cars. In Austin there was such a great race and I want the same in the last 5 races.

stop attacking another poster for your own inability to read correctly. he doesn't want a DNF for max, he's only saying how max has a comfortable lead for the championship

i mean for real, really uncalled for behaviour.

Ringo has said it multiple times on race threads and in Mercedes threads. Not sure what you are defending. The right thing to ask for, is for both Lewis and Mercedes to stop making silly mistakes, not wishing bad luck to Max and RB.

Ringo is saying that in order for Hamilton/Mercedes to have a chance, Max has to suffer a DNF. He's not saying he wants a DNF. He might want one, but that's not what he's saying in his posts.

[dans79]

stop attacking another poster for your own inability to read correctly. he doesn't want a DNF for max, he's only saying how max has a comfortable lead for the championship

i mean for real, really uncalled for behaviour.

Ringo has said it multiple times on race threads and in Mercedes threads. Not sure what you are defending. The right thing to ask for, is for both Lewis and Mercedes to stop making silly mistakes, not wishing bad luck to Max and RB.

Ringo is saying that in order for Hamilton/Mercedes to have a chance, Max has to suffer a DNF. He's not saying he wants a DNF. He might want one, but that's not what he's saying in his posts.

Yep, That's a perfect example of people reading what they want to read!

[NL_Fer]

Maybe it was just wishful thinking but it looked to me, as if Hamilton already gave up yesterday. He wasn’t angry on the radio after the race, said he had fun racing at the press conference. Like he lost his believe the win the championship.

Maybe after this weekend he knows he is powerless in Mexico and Brasil and his powerunit is fried, when he starts the final races in the Middle East.

[Scorpaguy]

Maybe it was just wishful thinking but it looked to me, as if Hamilton already gave up yesterday. He wasn’t angry on the radio after the race, said he had fun racing at the press conference. Like he lost his believe the win the championship.

Maybe after this weekend he knows he is powerless in Mexico and Brasil and his powerunit is fried, when he starts the final races in the Middle East.

I get an opposite vibe from Ham and Merc. Ham just knows this is his first real fight in years. Neither Ham nor Merc are giving up. This goes down to the wire. RB had a perfect weekend and darn near did not win. I would not bet half of a Canadian penny on the outcome of this year's WDC...5 races to go and only 12 points separating is nothing with all the worn out ice's and Mazespins!