Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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ringo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Were there any engine cover changes?
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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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ringo wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:54 pm
Were there any engine cover changes?
I haven't seen any changes all year to the engine cover.
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Sieper
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Here is another video, now with reference points (in purple).


Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:35 pm
Here is another video, now with reference points (in purple).

That's normal rear wing movement with load - even the Red Bull will be doing that.
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dans79
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:35 pm
Here is another video, now with reference points (in purple).

That's the entire wing rotating backwards, not the main plane flexing in isolation! Draw another reference line at the top of the DRS flap, and you will see that it changes in parallel. What you are seeing is the entire rear wing rotating backwards, thus why you can see the gap!
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El Scorchio
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Isn't this from Paul Ricard? Looks like it from the surroundings. It's certainly not from Interlagos or Losail. If so- surely completely irrelevant? Wings have changed since then due to the technical directive.

And also if so, then Red Bull would have absolutely noticed it there and protested there and then as a counter claim to the protest going on against their wing. There would have been no sense in sitting on it until this point of the season as given the timeframe granted to teams for the flex wing earlier this year would take it beyond the end of this season so it would be pointless.

Add to the flaws others have already pointed out with this footage.

Marty_Y
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Re: Mercedes W12

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Video from France has been discussed on this page of the Merc team thread already.

It would be easy to draw similar lines for all horizontal edges as in the gif in this post to show that it's not just the trailing edge moving.

Marty_Y
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:35 pm
Here is another video, now with reference points (in purple).

In the video I posted @1min42 it says that even Horner admits that "it can't be seen on camera". It then goes on to say "so any supposed evidence you're seeing revealed from fan accounts take with a pinch of salt because if Red Bull can't find any conclusive proof then chances are someone on Twitter hasn't found it either".

Also that video is old, it looks like it's from France, so I'm not sure how you think it has any relevance now?

e30ernest
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Re: Mercedes W12

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:53 pm
Sieper wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:35 pm
Here is another video, now with reference points (in purple).

That's the entire wing rotating backwards, not the main plane flexing in isolation! Draw another reference line at the top of the DRS flap, and you will see that it changes in parallel. What you are seeing is the entire rear wing rotating backwards, thus why you can see the gap!
Yeah you can see this easily by simply leaving your mouse pointer at the top of the DRS flap at the start of the video. The entire wing was moving there.

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ringo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Also the drag reduction benefit is not great if they were doing this. The upwash on the backside of the wing is very powerful. Changing that gap could even add more energy to the upwash.
Redbull are just clutching at straws. In all of this they have ignored the driver factor; they greatest and most inaccurate assumption is that their driver is on the same level. That's the only explanation I have right now for the obsession with them wondering why Hamilton's car is so fast. This same fact also flustered them in Qatar.

I think Mercedes need to look on Redbull's rear wing endplates. Those flutter laterally, and I suspect they are the reason the DRS flaps around. Something fishy could be going on between the rear wheel and the diffuser and end plate.
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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W12

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ringo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:23 am
Also the drag reduction benefit is not great if they were doing this. The upwash on the backside of the wing is very powerful. Changing that gap could even add more energy to the upwash.
Redbull are just clutching at straws. In all of this they have ignored the driver factor; they greatest and most inaccurate assumption is that their driver is on the same level. That's the only explanation I have right now for the obsession with them wondering why Hamilton's car is so fast. This same fact also flustered them in Qatar.

I think Mercedes need to look on Redbull's rear wing endplates. Those flutter laterally, and I suspect they are the reason the DRS flaps around. Something fishy could be going on between the rear wheel and the diffuser and end plate.
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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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ringo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:23 am
Also the drag reduction benefit is not great if they were doing this. The upwash on the backside of the wing is very powerful. Changing that gap could even add more energy to the upwash.
Redbull are just clutching at straws. In all of this they have ignored the driver factor; they greatest and most inaccurate assumption is that their driver is on the same level. That's the only explanation I have right now for the obsession with them wondering why Hamilton's car is so fast. This same fact also flustered them in Qatar.

I think Mercedes need to look on Redbull's rear wing endplates. Those flutter laterally, and I suspect they are the reason the DRS flaps around. Something fishy could be going on between the rear wheel and the diffuser and end plate.
I'm not an expert, so take this with a big grain of salt, but any flapping of surfaces generally is detrimental to the performance of the car. It's just the teams trying to create parts that are as thin and light as possible.
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ringo
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Flapping does not have to be detrimental.
Wings are aerodynamic surfaces and so are any other surface on the car. They can all be used for aerodynamic advantage. Not because a wing flexes makes it any more different in its impact than when another aero part flexes. Flows interact in 3 Dimensional volumes not just 2D.
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El Scorchio
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Re: Mercedes W12

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Let us not forget that some forum users appeared very agitated with the flexibility of the W12's T wing and shark fin earlier in the season. Although let us also not forget that clearly none of the other teams were bothered about it despite it being plainly visible on footage, so we can be pretty sure that didn't bring any performance gain with it.