Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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PhillipM
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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BassVirolla wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:55 pm

If I understood rightly the ScalexF1's post, the damper will be pushing the knuckle up, so a pull rod layout over low frequency bumps, will be an "inverted push rod" while travelling over high frequency bumps, because the damper will be pushing the wheel up indeed.

Nevertheless, this can be accomplished with push or pull rod indistinctly, I think.
Pushing it up against what?
The spring force is what keeps it there, the damper is reacting against the spring force in rebound...

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BassVirolla
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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PhillipM wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:45 pm
BassVirolla wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:55 pm

If I understood rightly the ScalexF1's post, the damper will be pushing the knuckle up, so a pull rod layout over low frequency bumps, will be an "inverted push rod" while travelling over high frequency bumps, because the damper will be pushing the wheel up indeed.

Nevertheless, this can be accomplished with push or pull rod indistinctly, I think.
Pushing it up against what?
The spring force is what keeps it there, the damper is reacting against the spring force in rebound...
A very assimmetrical level of damping will make the damper extend or compress (against the spring force) while working at frequencies over certaim threshold.

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Stu
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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But is specifically outlawed in the regs
Common sense is not as common as stupidity, but it is better to be uninformed than to be mis-informed...

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BassVirolla
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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Oh, right. I forgot that.

But I believe to remember that the rules don't stipulate a maximum legal ratio in quantitative means, only qualitative.

Nevertheless, the ScalexF1 hypothesis is feasible(I think!). Only that not in next year Ferrari.

Scalexf1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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If the Ferrari aerodynamicists are successful in sealing the sides of the Venturi floor consistently in pitch and yaw in their simulations, then the change to pull rod can as a guide be for lower weight distribution or the actual pull rod itself is being successfully used to create some outwash of the tyre wake/squirt coming from the inside of the front wheels.
If consistently sealing the sides of the floor is found to be currently impossible within the new Inwash aerodynamic regulations then the car could well be extremely ride height critical.
So hypothetically the chassis would sit on a reasonably solid platform in an attempt to maintain the ideal ride height for the Venturi tunnels when the car is being driven.
Any extra movement of the chassis towards the track past the ride height mandated by the platform will come from the tyre sidewall.
Any upwards movement away from the ride height platform will be arrested by the mandated springs and dampers.
Basically it will sit on bump stops.

PhillipM
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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BassVirolla wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:22 am
A very assimmetrical level of damping will make the damper extend or compress (against the spring force) while working at frequencies over certaim threshold.
Yes, and the spring is the one thing keeping the car up. So without the spring it'd be sat on the bump stops already. So where is the force that's greater than the spring that's pushing the wheel down to turn the pullrod into a pushrod against the rebound damping?

Maybe, maybe, some tyre vibration with the wheel in the air over a kerb, if you're lucky, but I don't think that would be enough to overcome the spring force on the pullrod that it's suddenly a pushrod.

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jumpingfish
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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Youtube recommendation :-) Glossy red looks better than matte for me, I hope Ferrari wouldn't need to find how to decrease the weight for extra hundred grams and they let the paint be glossy.
Image

Image

f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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I think there’s an assumption that pull rod front suspension somehow doesn’t work because the cars it was raced on - especially the first one in 2012 - were not great cars.

But as mentioned elsewhere, I think that’s a classic correlation/causation trap and the 2015 car for example - while not the class of the field - performed pretty well (especially given its lack of power vs the Mercedes) and was the class of the field in somewhere like Singapore. That wouldn’t happen if there was something fundamentally wrong with the suspension concept.

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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f1316 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:52 pm
I think there’s an assumption that pull rod front suspension somehow doesn’t work because the cars it was raced on - especially the first one in 2012 - were not great cars.

But as mentioned elsewhere, I think that’s a classic correlation/causation trap and the 2015 car for example - while not the class of the field - performed pretty well (especially given its lack of power vs the Mercedes) and was the class of the field in somewhere like Singapore. That wouldn’t happen if there was something fundamentally wrong with the suspension concept.
It has to be said that the SF15-T had a much lower chassis at the front (more suited to pull-rod) and significantly revised geometry compared to the 2012-2014 cars.
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

Jolle
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:56 pm
f1316 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:52 pm
I think there’s an assumption that pull rod front suspension somehow doesn’t work because the cars it was raced on - especially the first one in 2012 - were not great cars.

But as mentioned elsewhere, I think that’s a classic correlation/causation trap and the 2015 car for example - while not the class of the field - performed pretty well (especially given its lack of power vs the Mercedes) and was the class of the field in somewhere like Singapore. That wouldn’t happen if there was something fundamentally wrong with the suspension concept.
It has to be said that the SF15-T had a much lower chassis at the front (more suited to pull-rod) and significantly revised geometry compared to the 2012-2014 cars.
James Allison stated at the time that Alonso, Raikkonen and Vettel (and himself) preferred a pushrod solution but the development path didn’t made it possible for 2015 (due to the limitations in aero development).

zioture
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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Push rod or pull rod ?
Turn on subtitles and choose english translation on youtube

LM10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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Gazzetta dello Sport about the 2022 Ferrari:

"In Maranello they say that the 2022 car is the most aggressive, in terms of approach compared to the recent ones."

"Mattia Binotto wanted his team to approach the challenge with a greater open-mindedness, than in the past, exploring more avenues in research. They [Maranello] assure us that the results of that will be seen in the new car."

"The area around the bottom (floor) and the shape of the bodywork will be two key elements for performance in the new regulation. And it seems Ferrari has been pushing research in these areas."

"At Ferrari, they evaluated various concepts for the suspension and the layout of the internal parts, before beginning the actual aerodynamic development in the wind tunnel. And even in this second phase, there was a not at all conservative attitude from the engineers."

"No stone was left unturned. Another element that suggests confidence at Maranello. Even though they are aware that Mercedes and Red Bull have the knowledge, tools and methodologies to do the same."


All via tami. on twitter.

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Morteza
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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geraldix
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari 674 speculation thread

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Every year we get a bunch of rumours about the new Ferrrari "looking good, very agressive and innovative" and when it hits the track it's --- like always.