2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
MrGapes
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Lucky wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:37 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:39 am
djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am


One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
He doesn't have a driving style ?
I know Carlos liked a lot the 2019/2020 McLaren because it was very understeery
Maybe Lando would like a McLaren with a very strong front end, unlike in the past few years
Lando: For me, the most important thing is that the front wheels hold the track normally, and how the rear tires work is not so important anymore.

What do you require from a car? Charles Leclerc says he has understeer and loves oversteer. How are you?
Norris: I'm knitted right there. I hate understeering cars. And that's exactly what we currently have.
Do you want to change that for next season?
Norris: I would like to. But it's not that easy. I give feedback to the team all the time. You know what I would like. At the same time, I just want them to put the fastest possible car in my hands. And if that doesn't meet my expectations, that's fine anyway. My job as a driver is to adapt to this.
"I just want them to put the fastest possible car in my hands. And if that doesn't meet my expectations, that's fine anyway. My job as a driver is to adapt to this."

This is the mentality every top tier driver should have...

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:48 am
PhillipM wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:31 am
One that's fast. Any good driver will drive around any issues so long as the car is bloody quick.
Yip, points will overcome any dislikes.
I would assume he is saying 'make the fastest car you can and I will adapt', even knowing if he does not there is a precedent.
In the end, in my opinion, that's what the designers try to do. On the road to building the fastest car they can, they don't try to build a strong or weak front end, it just turns out that way.

Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:16 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:39 am
djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:19 am


One that is predictable and fast is usually a good start!
He doesn't have a driving style ?
I know Carlos liked a lot the 2019/2020 McLaren because it was very understeery
Maybe Lando would like a McLaren with a very strong front end, unlike in the past few years
He has not make particular statements in that regard… He has extracted the most of every car McLaren has given him and the fact that the previous McLaren cars may have been “tricky” is a great learning experience from him… If he was able to get the most out of a difficult package, a simpler one would make his life that much easier and therefore you could expect more performance.

At the end of the day, the team’s job is to make the fastest car they can make… If it has a strong or lose front end (or rear end) is meaningless if the car is intrinsically fast… That’s what differentiates the likes of Verstappen, Lewis or Alonso versus their team mates, they manage to drive around the weaknesses in the package and extract the most our of their strengths and that’s why they have been successful.

The teams don’t design a nose or rear biased car, they design a car that gives them the most amount of DF / Speed at a range of corner types (and straights), they try to build a car with the most efficient DF levels… If the car is naturally under steering or over steering it’s a second thought and is expected for the drivers to manage it… No team creates a car that craters to a driver philosophy if that (on paper) is an slower car.

Furthermore, in racing it is all about compromises… There isn’t such a thing as the perfect car (although, I will argue that the W12 was close to that for that particular regulation era)… The RBR’s in order to extract that most out of their package tend to be nose heavy with a loose end, they are successful because someone like Max can drive around that and extract speed from it, while the Gasly’s, Perez’s and Albon’s of the world struggled.
Thank you all for your answers. I understand he likes a strong front end and is not afraid of oversteer. We could clearly see that from his onboard but I was not sure.
Ofc a driver has to adapt whatever is the car. Lando did his best seasons with a lazy front end.

Regarding how to approach design relative to a driver style. I style think there's some design (suspension, before 2022 the rake...) which made a choice, for a driving style over an other. We've seen it this year with the drama around Ferrari developing and understeery car fors Carlos while Charles prefer neutral/oversteer on the front end. Same for Red Bull favoring Verstappen.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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CjC wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:07 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
He said on Sky after the Abu Dhabi race that he likes a strong front end and I quote: ‘I don’t need rear tyres’ (joke)
Basically his style fits in with Hamilton, Verstappen etc and we know what they achieved….
If Mclaren can't give Norris the car he needs, I hope Red bull would take him. Verstappen Norris would be a super team.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:03 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:07 am
Spoutnik wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:16 am
What kind of car Lando like ? Or put it in another way what's his driving style ?

McL should draw a car based on his style
He said all year that he agree with Daniel, the car was tricky and didn't fit his driving style (n)either
He said on Sky after the Abu Dhabi race that he likes a strong front end and I quote: ‘I don’t need rear tyres’ (joke)
Basically his style fits in with Hamilton, Verstappen etc and we know what they achieved….
If Mclaren can't give Norris the car he needs, I hope Red bull would take him. Verstappen Norris would be a super team.
I feel, the opposite. Talent should be spread across all teams for more joy for everyone. That is the main driver for being in favour of a Driver pay CAP. It is less important now, cause the big three still have a process edge, there will come a day that two or three teams being able to swallow up all the best drivers will be a problem to the competitiveness of the sport.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:18 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:03 pm
CjC wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:07 am


He said on Sky after the Abu Dhabi race that he likes a strong front end and I quote: ‘I don’t need rear tyres’ (joke)
Basically his style fits in with Hamilton, Verstappen etc and we know what they achieved….
If Mclaren can't give Norris the car he needs, I hope Red bull would take him. Verstappen Norris would be a super team.
I feel, the opposite. Talent should be spread across all teams for more joy for everyone.
I have always felt this way as well but F1 has burned me somewhat. I just don't see how the gaps we saw this year between big 3 and midfield close meaningfully through 2026.

Mclaren will only have 10-15% more WT time than someone like Mercedes and Ferrari. How on earth do you imagine them finding over 1 second in performance relative to the others from that? The timeframe is enormous.

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diffuser
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Here's to hoping that new regs make it easier to make up time.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:35 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:18 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:03 pm


If Mclaren can't give Norris the car he needs, I hope Red bull would take him. Verstappen Norris would be a super team.
I feel, the opposite. Talent should be spread across all teams for more joy for everyone.
I have always felt this way as well but F1 has burned me somewhat. I just don't see how the gaps we saw this year between big 3 and midfield close meaningfully through 2026.

Mclaren will only have 10-15% more WT time than someone like Mercedes and Ferrari. How on earth do you imagine them finding over 1 second in performance relative to the others from that? The timeframe is enormous.
Binotto suggested that Ferrari's extra development time was worth a tenth at best:
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/997846/1/ ... ap-binotto

I struggle to see how Mclaren can close quickly. 10% extra WT is not worth 1 second. It would take 10 years if that extra windtunnel time was worth 1 tenth every year.

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:56 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:35 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:18 pm


I feel, the opposite. Talent should be spread across all teams for more joy for everyone.
I have always felt this way as well but F1 has burned me somewhat. I just don't see how the gaps we saw this year between big 3 and midfield close meaningfully through 2026.

Mclaren will only have 10-15% more WT time than someone like Mercedes and Ferrari. How on earth do you imagine them finding over 1 second in performance relative to the others from that? The timeframe is enormous.
Binotto suggested that Ferrari's extra development time was worth a tenth at best:
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/997846/1/ ... ap-binotto

I struggle to see how Mclaren can close quickly. 10% extra WT is not worth 1 second. It would take 10 years if that extra windtunnel time was worth 1 tenth every year.

As rules mature it takes more and more wind tunnel time to find time is my guess. They start moving things around by MMs, while right now they're still moving things by CMs. Last year they had so many projects going on, with the new regs, they probably cut off work early to finish stuff off in time. There is still alot of big gains to be had in these regs. I mean look at the test floor McLaren introduce, it was a major change. I think a few teams got the budgets wrong and had too much money going into the season, Certainly Ferrari appeared that way.


For me the biggest issue is that they're gonna change the regs again in 2026. If we learned anything from 2022 is the teams that have the best processes (the big three) always win out when new regs are introduced.

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:28 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:48 am
PhillipM wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:31 am
One that's fast. Any good driver will drive around any issues so long as the car is bloody quick.
Yip, points will overcome any dislikes.
I would assume he is saying 'make the fastest car you can and I will adapt', even knowing if he does not there is a precedent.
In the end, in my opinion, that's what the designers try to do. On the road to building the fastest car they can, they don't try to build a strong or weak front end, it just turns out that way.
For sure, based on discussions I’ve had with professional race drivers, they can happily drive around issues as long as

A/ the car is predictable on the limit
And
B/ fast (they’ll put up with a lot for a fast car)

And that’s been Daniel’s issue with the last 2 Mclaren’s, they haven’t been predictable on the limit.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

ScottR267
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Race mechanic for the team confirming new talent into the team

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djos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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ScottR267 wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:57 pm
Race mechanic for the team confirming new talent into the team
That's a pretty damming indictment of the MCL36 by a team employee - essentially confirming they didn't understand why the car was so unpredictable!

Image
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Mostlyeels
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Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 pm
For me the biggest issue is that they're gonna change the regs again in 2026.
I knew the PUs will change, but aero regs/formula as well?

MrGapes
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:08 pm
ScottR267 wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:57 pm
Race mechanic for the team confirming new talent into the team
That's a pretty damming indictment of the MCL36 by a team employee - essentially confirming they didn't understand why the car was so unpredictable!

https://i.imgur.com/Q6OOxTo.jpg
Nowhere in that statement does it say the car was unpredictable.

I’ve watched the car onboards the whole year… the car was not unpredictable, it was just slow..

Spoutnik
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Re: 2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:56 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:35 pm
diffuser wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:18 pm


I feel, the opposite. Talent should be spread across all teams for more joy for everyone.
I have always felt this way as well but F1 has burned me somewhat. I just don't see how the gaps we saw this year between big 3 and midfield close meaningfully through 2026.

Mclaren will only have 10-15% more WT time than someone like Mercedes and Ferrari. How on earth do you imagine them finding over 1 second in performance relative to the others from that? The timeframe is enormous.
Binotto suggested that Ferrari's extra development time was worth a tenth at best:
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/997846/1/ ... ap-binotto

I struggle to see how Mclaren can close quickly. 10% extra WT is not worth 1 second. It would take 10 years if that extra windtunnel time was worth 1 tenth every year.
It's very sad but very true...
Next year will not be so much different than this year for many, I'm afraid