2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
billamend
billamend
12
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:45 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

In the 2022 car reveal, Key mentioned how much they had worked on the suspension. Key might be conservative, but he was not on the mechanic side of the car. Also, he is not a aerodynamicist, he is a mechanical engineer, so that part obviously was something he cared about.

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
15
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:10 am

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

I do think in hindsight everyone will realize that pullrod front/pushrod rear is the way to go. I expect that Mercedes will make the switch this year as well.

ScottR267
ScottR267
0
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Another new sponsor for the team in Optimum Nutrition

Farnborough
Farnborough
66
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

billamend wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:17 am
In the 2022 car reveal, Key mentioned how much they had worked on the suspension. Key might be conservative, but he was not on the mechanic side of the car. Also, he is not a aerodynamicist, he is a mechanical engineer, so that part obviously was something he cared about.
Agree with you about JK and the negative slating he got from "fans" on here.

I feel there was often opinion on here that demonised JK over team performance, but believe that 2022 chassis was a very good design, fundamentally right on point and furthermore the platform to which, when applied, more resolved aero concept gave the step change we saw in 2023.

Not working there, we can't possibly know the internal politics. Correspondingly, there can't really be accurate opinion of someone's knowledge and influence. I think it's wrong to speak of a person so negatively without good cause, a lot was contributed, there maybe a better "fit" with the current group now working there, but it shouldn't diminish the contribution he made to McL.

User avatar
mwillems
21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

billamend wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:17 am
In the 2022 car reveal, Key mentioned how much they had worked on the suspension. Key might be conservative, but he was not on the mechanic side of the car. Also, he is not a aerodynamicist, he is a mechanical engineer, so that part obviously was something he cared about.
It was a good platform for last years development, mechanically speaking, other than the oddities about not being able to feel the road through the car. But he was here to manage the project of delivering a car that was fast in all regards and not to be an engineer.

Stella has spoken about the Aero aspect as being held back somewhat and that the decision making in the team was not optimal with some people not having voices. Zak had spoken about his own disappointment with the development of the car and not finding the time they would want, as well as disappointment with the two poor winters. So I think what was being called into question was not his ability as an engineer, but as the leader of all of the cars development and in particular the leader of a range of people and personalities.

At Mclaren, he fell short of what we needed. I bear no ill will for him it didn't work here, but I'm very glad he has gone as clearly we were existing very much within ourselves as Zak Brown has said repeatedly. Reiterating the man management and people empowerment skills of Stella and how this has taken the same group that Key and Seidl had to a different level. With a different group of people Key may flourish. I wish him the best of luck at Audi, as long as they finish behind us :D

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10563690/

For me, the big moment was the French Grand Prix [in 2022] when we were late with our upgrades and they were ineffective”

“The reaction from the leadership was not the reaction I would have expected. That was also at the same time when you start to develop [the following season's] car.

“So that was the big moment for me, and obviously we made the changes at the end of the year.

This was a reaction to both Key and Seidl.
Last edited by mwillems on Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

billamend
billamend
12
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:45 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

mwillems wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:18 pm
Stella has spoken about the Aero aspect as being held back somewhat and that the decision making in the team was not optimal with some people not having voices. Zak had spoken about his own disappointment with the development of the car and not finding the time they would want, as well as disappointment with the two poor winters. So I think what was being called into question was not his ability as an engineer, but as the leader of all of the cars development and in particular the leader of a range of people and personalities.
I was not saying that Key was blameless. Just that on the mechanical part of the car, he seemingly did a good job. I agree with most of the complaints that we hear.

Mostlyeels
Mostlyeels
0
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:47 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

mwillems wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:18 pm
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... /10563690/

For me, the big moment was the French Grand Prix [in 2022] when we were late with our upgrades and they were ineffective”

“The reaction from the leadership was not the reaction I would have expected. That was also at the same time when you start to develop [the following season's] car.

“So that was the big moment for me, and obviously we made the changes at the end of the year.

This was a reaction to both Key and Seidl.
Sounds like Key was a dead man walking in Zak's eyes from that point. And yet he still had enough confidence in him to deliver the 2023 car, so perhaps he only made the final decision when it came in below expectations.

User avatar
mwillems
21
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

billamend wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:14 pm
mwillems wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:18 pm
Stella has spoken about the Aero aspect as being held back somewhat and that the decision making in the team was not optimal with some people not having voices. Zak had spoken about his own disappointment with the development of the car and not finding the time they would want, as well as disappointment with the two poor winters. So I think what was being called into question was not his ability as an engineer, but as the leader of all of the cars development and in particular the leader of a range of people and personalities.
I was not saying that Key was blameless. Just that on the mechanical part of the car, he seemingly did a good job. I agree with most of the complaints that we hear.
Yeah he was on the nose with elements of the chassis, Stella paid tribute to the chassis, stating that without a good chassis the car would not have been as "upgradeable" as it was.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

User avatar
JordanMugen
82
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Espresso wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:37 pm
Key explained why a pull-rod configuration is trickier to perfect than a more conventional configuration.
Key expects more teams to adopt pull-rod front suspension
“In terms of the challenge, it’s definitely not what you’d do if you had a free hand at suspension design in its own right,” he said. “It’s very difficult. Everything’s kind of the wrong way around compared to a push-rod.
When I read this I’m happy he left the office.
Stuck to a principle and not understanding why teams start to use a pull rod -or- open to accept other solutions might be better…

Source:
https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/09/a-h ... uspension/
Your point doesn't make sense, Key implemented the pull rod front suspension on the initial 2022 McLaren already since the beginning of the regulations.

JPower
JPower
42
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:06 am

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:59 pm
Espresso wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:37 pm
Key explained why a pull-rod configuration is trickier to perfect than a more conventional configuration.
Key expects more teams to adopt pull-rod front suspension
“In terms of the challenge, it’s definitely not what you’d do if you had a free hand at suspension design in its own right,” he said. “It’s very difficult. Everything’s kind of the wrong way around compared to a push-rod.
When I read this I’m happy he left the office.
Stuck to a principle and not understanding why teams start to use a pull rod -or- open to accept other solutions might be better…

Source:
https://www.racefans.net/2024/02/09/a-h ... uspension/
Your point doesn't make sense, Key implemented the pull rod front suspension on the initial 2022 McLaren already since the beginning of the regulations.
Exactly, and he said even back then how much of a risk it was.

I think he did a commendable job during his McLaren stint given the tools he had available. The team was able to stand on its feet again. Sometimes a change is needed to go even further.

User avatar
djos
112
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

The mechanical package under Key was never the issue. The issue was him ignoring PP and forcing his own flawed aero concepts onto the car. Lando complained year after year that the car behaved differently from corner to corner, lap to lap and was ignored.

TBH, I think it took Daniel being unable to live with with the car to highlight how serious the issues were and force Zak to restructure the team without Key.
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
Zynerji
111
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

djos wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:47 pm
The mechanical package under Key was never the issue. The issue was him ignoring PP and forcing his own flawed aero concepts onto the car. Lando complained year after year that the car behaved differently from corner to corner, lap to lap and was ignored.

TBH, I think it took Daniel being unable to live with with the car to highlight how serious the issues were and force Zak to restructure the team without Key.
Makes u wonder how Daniel might have lived in that 2023 McL.👀

the EDGE
the EDGE
67
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:31 pm
Location: Bedfordshire ENGLAND

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:07 pm
djos wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:47 pm
The mechanical package under Key was never the issue. The issue was him ignoring PP and forcing his own flawed aero concepts onto the car. Lando complained year after year that the car behaved differently from corner to corner, lap to lap and was ignored.

TBH, I think it took Daniel being unable to live with with the car to highlight how serious the issues were and force Zak to restructure the team without Key.
Makes u wonder how Daniel might have lived in that 2023 McL.👀
I think maybe the days of engineers being sole technical directors are over. Aero is now Key (pun intended) and therefore Aerodynamicists need to ultimately take the lead, hence McLaren now having 2 aero TD's. Key was a casualty of this decision

User avatar
djos
112
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 5:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Zynerji wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:07 pm
djos wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:47 pm
The mechanical package under Key was never the issue. The issue was him ignoring PP and forcing his own flawed aero concepts onto the car. Lando complained year after year that the car behaved differently from corner to corner, lap to lap and was ignored.

TBH, I think it took Daniel being unable to live with with the car to highlight how serious the issues were and force Zak to restructure the team without Key.
Makes u wonder how Daniel might have lived in that 2023 McL.👀
While the 23 car was a big improvement, some of Lando’s comments hinted that the issues weren’t gone, the car was just more predictable. We all saw it bite him a few times in qualifying.

I’d have loved Daniel to thrive at MacLaren, but IMO even last years car would have caused him problems.
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
Darth-Piekus
-1
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Im hearing that Ferrari tries to obtain Pierre Vas from Red Bull. The press mentions that he had a bigger impact on the last two Red Bull cars than even Andrian Newey. What is your opinion of Mclaren getting him first?