Christian Horner under Investigation

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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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Shakeman wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:19 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:30 pm
Shakeman wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:11 am


So far the RB Press Release is the only communication worth reading on the subject it has the advantage of being factual.


No, to you they are, not for everyone, many times media fill in the gaps that the press reports keep hidden. Things that you may not like, but are factual.
Explain to me line by line what isn't factual in the RB Press release?

I suspect you want to indulge in gossip, you aren't happy that RB haven't published all the salacious detail of the allegations if there actually were any. This is a private workplace incident apparently between two people there is no in the public interest argument to know more.

Personally, I don't give two squits what CH has done or hasn't done only that he gets a fair hearing as everyone is entitled to. I can wait for the outcome of the independent investigation, if it was found CH was up to no good and is required to leave so be it, he'll deservedly get the boot. We will learn if he's going or not in due course, all we have to do is wait. When senior people depart companies there are often NDA agreements in place such that no one can discuss the reasons for leaving or terms of leaving and that would include the injured party too. So don't expect a press release that is filled with all the gory details just the bare facts.

The media isn't filling in the gaps, it's making sh!t up right now, that should be obvious to anyone who has read the full gamut of allegations from all those solid sources. No one outside of a very small number of people in RB have any idea what's going on and what the real allegations are. There's no Sy Hersh or John Pilger level of journalist fighting to hold the powerful to account here, the column inches are being written by bottom feeders who live off scraps and what they don't know will happily make up for clicks.
Fully agree , we will probably never know what happened so lets move on

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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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Shakeman wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:19 pm





I suspect you want to indulge in gossip, you aren't happy that RB haven't published all the salacious detail of the allegations if there actually were any. This is a private workplace incident apparently between two people there is no in the public interest argument to know more.
Remind you of what you posted a short while earlier
So it’s likely he raised his voice and a snowflake got offended.
So it is fine to make something up about the mystery victim, but totally wrong to say anything that doesn’t hold Redbull in a high regard, and we must ignore anything that comes from the media about this situation, unless I presume it is something supporting Horner, and then we will be allowed to offer it up for consideration?

CMC
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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No relevant news on this topic in the last 2 days, and this thread is just people repeating their opinions over and over or picking on one another.

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dans79
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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CMC wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:01 pm
No relevant news on this topic in the last 2 days, and this thread is just people repeating their opinions over and over or picking on one another.
That's what most forums are!
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stephen
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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It seems unlikely that this case would be solves before the start of the season It would be interesting if Horner leaves Red Bull during the season and how it would effect the results of the team.
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Wouter
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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stephen wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:44 pm
It seems unlikely that this case would be solves before the start of the season It would be interesting if Horner leaves Red Bull during the season and how it would effect the results of the team.
.
I don't find that interesting. Ofcourse it will effect the results of the team if Horner leaves.
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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If he gets removed part way through the season he probably did something to justify it!
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carisi2k
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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f1jcw wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 5:47 pm
So it is fine to make something up about the mystery victim, but totally wrong to say anything that doesn’t hold Redbull in a high regard, and we must ignore anything that comes from the media about this situation, unless I presume it is something supporting Horner, and then we will be allowed to offer it up for consideration?
The question is why are you so trusting of the information that is out there? Innocent until proven guilty.

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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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Well, the person who said Horner wanted to set up a shell company with him in charge as said


The Red Bull GmbH #ChristianHorner leak machine now silent. The offer of "voluntary resignation" as "face-saver" suggests his enemies overvalued the ethics case against him. Seems he toughed out the grilling, leaving them in a quandary. Fold or chance sacking him on weak grounds

Just baseless rumour, but so is everything’s

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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:11 pm
If he gets removed part way through the season he probably did something to justify it!
You said you worked in corporate place. You would know that any harassment related investigation and redressal is time bound and has to be concluded in a time bound manner. This is to avoid keeping the involved employees under duress. If there is an genuine incident and if that has cost CH his job, we would soon know it and I don't expect it to take months or part way through the season.

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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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mendis wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:06 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:11 pm
If he gets removed part way through the season he probably did something to justify it!
You said you worked in corporate place. You would know that any harassment related investigation and redressal is time bound and has to be concluded in a time bound manner. This is to avoid keeping the involved employees under duress. If there is an genuine incident and if that has cost CH his job, we would soon know it and I don't expect it to take months or part way through the season.
In my state the statute of limitations Is 300 days!
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mendis
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:22 am
mendis wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:06 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:11 pm
If he gets removed part way through the season he probably did something to justify it!
You said you worked in corporate place. You would know that any harassment related investigation and redressal is time bound and has to be concluded in a time bound manner. This is to avoid keeping the involved employees under duress. If there is an genuine incident and if that has cost CH his job, we would soon know it and I don't expect it to take months or part way through the season.
In my state the statute of limitations Is 300 days!
While this one is applicable for sexual harassment, I would assume similar timeframes are applicable for other harassment cases too in US. I will try to find one for general harassment and edit this post.

10 U.S. Code § 1561 - Complaints of sexual harassment: investigation by commanding officers
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1561
(c)Duration of Investigation.—
To the extent practicable, a commanding officer or officer in charge receiving such a complaint shall ensure that the investigation of the complaint is completed not later than 14 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced.

(d)Report on Investigation.—To the extent practicable, a commanding officer or officer in charge receiving such a complaint shall—
(1)submit a final report on the results of the investigation, including any action taken as a result of the investigation, to the next superior officer referred to in subsection (b)(1) within 20 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced; or

(2)submit a report on the progress made in completing the investigation to the next superior officer referred to in subsection (b)(1) within 20 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced and every 14 days thereafter until the investigation is completed and, upon completion of the investigation, then submit a final report on the results of the investigation, including any action taken as a result of the investigation, to that next superior officer.

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dans79
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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mendis wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:13 am
dans79 wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:22 am
mendis wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:06 am
You said you worked in corporate place. You would know that any harassment related investigation and redressal is time bound and has to be concluded in a time bound manner. This is to avoid keeping the involved employees under duress. If there is an genuine incident and if that has cost CH his job, we would soon know it and I don't expect it to take months or part way through the season.
In my state the statute of limitations Is 300 days!
While this one is applicable for sexual harassment, I would assume similar timeframes are applicable for other harassment cases too in US. I will try to find one for general harassment and edit this post.

10 U.S. Code § 1561 - Complaints of sexual harassment: investigation by commanding officers
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1561
(c)Duration of Investigation.—
To the extent practicable, a commanding officer or officer in charge receiving such a complaint shall ensure that the investigation of the complaint is completed not later than 14 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced.

(d)Report on Investigation.—To the extent practicable, a commanding officer or officer in charge receiving such a complaint shall—
(1)submit a final report on the results of the investigation, including any action taken as a result of the investigation, to the next superior officer referred to in subsection (b)(1) within 20 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced; or

(2)submit a report on the progress made in completing the investigation to the next superior officer referred to in subsection (b)(1) within 20 days after the date on which the investigation is commenced and every 14 days thereafter until the investigation is completed and, upon completion of the investigation, then submit a final report on the results of the investigation, including any action taken as a result of the investigation, to that next superior officer.
Note that is military related and they play by their own rules.
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Chuckjr
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:04 am
Since the death of Dietrich Mateschitz, a huge power struggle has been going on between RB GmbH and RBR/Horner.
The two teams were the passion of Mateschitz, Horner and Marko were in charge.
Now Mintzlaff is in charge and he gives nothing about the F1 and the two teams who were M's passion, only about money .
He wants to be in charge of RBR (TP), doesn't want Ford involved and wants Horner out. He is the only one who wants Horner out.
Not Marko, not Max, not Jos, etc. That's why he told Van Haren and F1Insider that there was an investigation going on.
Something that should have stayed inside!! Because of that Horner is already getting a bad name and that is exactly what he wants. Horner out!

It is not normal for the top boss (Mintzlaff) of a major company to release a secret internal investigation before the final results are known! He knew what the consequences would be for Horner before the investigation.
Nailed it. 🎯
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organic
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Re: Christian Horner under Investigation

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Wouter wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:04 am
Since the death of Dietrich Mateschitz, a huge power struggle has been going on between RB GmbH and RBR/Horner.
The two teams were the passion of Mateschitz, Horner and Marko were in charge.
Now Mintzlaff is in charge and he gives nothing about the F1 and the two teams who were M's passion, only about money .
He wants to be in charge of RBR (TP), doesn't want Ford involved and wants Horner out. He is the only one who wants Horner out.
Not Marko, not Max, not Jos, etc. That's why he told Van Haren and F1Insider that there was an investigation going on.
Something that should have stayed inside!! Because of that Horner is already getting a bad name and that is exactly what he wants. Horner out!

It is not normal for the top boss (Mintzlaff) of a major company to release a secret internal investigation before the final results are known! He knew what the consequences would be for Horner before the investigation.
I think another possibility is that van Haren found out about the investigation through some other independent means. And so he went to Mintzlaff to ask about the matter to confirm If the story is true. Journalists do this all the time.

If Mintzlaff is approached like this and there is an investigation into Horner.. not revealing anything can look like RB are trying to sweep something under the rug or at the very least not being transparent. Given van Haren is likely to then discover subsequently any information because of the high profile nature of it all and how long the investigation has been going on internally there is little reason not to get ahead of the issue and be the ones to create the initial narrative and story.

Mintzlaff's short term goal is not to protect red bull racing's F1 season or stability but to protect the RB brand. A subsidiary's CEO having a scandal and RB GmbH being seen to be covering up/sweeping under rug could be very damaging to brand as a whole and to those in power at RB. So I can see this as a possibility