2024 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne, March 22 - 24

[pipoloko]

This gives reasonable overview with look at pertinent data

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 96501.html

Doesn't foment the hysterical slant but covers what really went down.

To think though two elements, that we're supposedly heading towards downchanging to recharge at end of straight in 2026 regulations

Also how on earth doesn't GR even get round the first lap in each race ?

Whatever Alonso was doing, GR was definitely driving straight into the situation with no regard of outcome.

So it wasn't attempted murder?

The penalty was unjust. Russell was too greedy

what if in stead of blaming both drivers we blame the track itself
turn 6 and 7 are a bit tricky since there is gravel in play
2023 we have seen kind of a similar accident when albon enter into turn 6 faster as is allowed he finished in almost same position than Russell, may be turn 6 should be redsigned to avoid troubles and reducing Driver risks, once you into the gravel you ar a passenger at 200 ++ km/h ( in my opinion)

[Farnborough]

Completely unrealistic to change the corner, in my view. You could level the same accusation at most corners on most track, this IS the challenge of driving different tracks in a race series.

The safety measures worked here, the car was slowed by gravel, tech pro barriers worked on impact, looked more dramatic in reality than it was in effect.

Whatever FA did, GR played his part in that outcome.

If there was tarmac in runoff area, then he'd have run through that (he has history of taking the easy line and wearing the penalty, after all) and driver's etc have called for more gravel facilities to protect themselves and not also allow an easy run out such that they can approach without care in knowing they can bail.

It's an intrinsic part of driving the cars in any series. There are and should be limitations to trajectory and vehicle dynamics, this was played out here.

If anyone wants to see driver's playing the "Park it" then boot it game, Mr Senna and Mr Schumacher are two excellent examples, both also considered icons of this sport.

There really was "nothing to see" here, GR needs to take responsibility for himself, else he's not going to realise his personal ambition.

So far , Imola twice and slapping VB in the aftermath of the second, Zhou Silverstone, all by himself Singapore, plus others. Not an enviable record is it

[pipoloko]

with all my respect to different opinions
while we share the charectreistics if the sport
Gravel in this paticular configuration (straight racing line) dosent reduce the speed much as in my opinion is required, (missing an apex at 220kmh) if you look the racing line between corner 6 and 7th the barriers design acts a "funnel" reducing the scape route, or in other words increasing the risk of impact with the barrier at 200+ km/h
I am not trying to discuss about Russell and Alonso, I am more concerned about the safety of the drivers the 2 recent accidents (or 3) shows a need to rethink the issue (IMO)
A simple solution would be to "rectify the barriers line straightening it " while keeping the gravel
thanks

[Farnborough]

This isn't a permanent circuit (public park when no racing) the barriers are ordinarily in front of things that can't be moved out of the way.

Something this sport has to accept when they use public space for racing. Same as all the "street" circuit used. The drivers just have to avoid hitting them with their considerable skill.

[TeamKoolGreen]

I haven’t seen the full ins and outs, but looked a weak penalty to me.
Russel had lost control of his car before entering the corner. Shown by the understeer he had.

Wise move trying to call for a red flag though, meant he would have kept his position.

In theory, the incident wouldn’t have been any different if Alonso had a failure of any kind and ‘genuinely’ needed to slow down through the right hander.

I think the penalty was spot on. It's a dirty trick at a dangerous part of the track. Brake checking someone should always come with harsh penalties.

No brake checking occured though.

ALO was going 60 km/h faster in that exact spot the lap before. Tell me again it wasn't a brake check.

60 km/h slower is called being parked on the racing line in qualifying. But apparently it is called good racecraft during the race.

[RonMexico]

I think the penalty was spot on. It's a dirty trick at a dangerous part of the track. Brake checking someone should always come with harsh penalties.

No brake checking occured though.

ALO was going 60 km/h faster in that exact spot the lap before. Tell me again it wasn't a brake check.

60 km/h slower is called being parked on the racing line in qualifying. But apparently it is called good racecraft during the race.

Magnusson did it for half a race in Jeddah. It is a fundamental part of racing

[TeamKoolGreen]

GR needs to take responsibility for himself, else he's not going to realise his personal ambition.

So far , Imola twice and slapping VB in the aftermath of the second, Zhou Silverstone, all by himself Singapore, plus others. Not an enviable record is it

6 years in F1 and you list 4 crashes and seem to think that it's a lot.

So now all drivers should expect 60 km/h differential brake checks at any given time on the racing line. So when that time comes when a car really is slowing hard on the racing line ,driver's just keep the throttle on.

Do you happen to know how Gilles Villeneuve was killed ?

[TeamKoolGreen]

No brake checking occured though.

ALO was going 60 km/h faster in that exact spot the lap before. Tell me again it wasn't a brake check.

60 km/h slower is called being parked on the racing line in qualifying. But apparently it is called good racecraft during the race.

Magnusson did it for half a race in Jeddah. It is a fundamental part of racing

K-Mag did not have a 60 km/h differential in speed at any given point on the racing line. Not even close.

Parking your car on the racing line for a moment is has nothing to do with racing

[fourmula1]

I think the penalty was spot on. It's a dirty trick at a dangerous part of the track. Brake checking someone should always come with harsh penalties.

No brake checking occured though.

ALO was going 60 km/h faster in that exact spot the lap before. Tell me again it wasn't a brake check.

60 km/h slower is called being parked on the racing line in qualifying. But apparently it is called good racecraft during the race.

My take is that was totally unpredictable driving. Which, non racers will say "ya that's the point!", racers know it was crossing a line. My guess, stewards reflected paddock sentiment, which is: not cool man.

[Mogster]

Parking it on the apex is fine as your pursuer always has to wait for you to get on the gas, otherwise they run the high risk of accelerating into your rear crash structure.

Braking 100m before your previous braking point then accelerating then braking again at the apex is not fine and runs the high risk of your pursuer hitting the rear of your car, or worse. The two situations really aren’t the same, the second would even get you banned in serious sim racing.

If Russell had hit the rear of Alonso’s car at speed and caused an aeroplane cash then with the telemetry evidence as it is Nando could ave been looking at a ban. He’s been quite lucky.

[mzso]

I think the penalty was spot on. It's a dirty trick at a dangerous part of the track. Brake checking someone should always come with harsh penalties.

No brake checking occured though.

I mean, the FIA and the telemetry support this, but you're free to believe whatever you want and even state so online for all to see.

No. He braked a little and chose to take the turn slowly for a fast exit, and to have a more advantageous position. That does not qualify as brake checking.

[mzso]

what if in stead of blaming both drivers we blame the track itself
turn 6 and 7 are a bit tricky since there is gravel in play
2023 we have seen kind of a similar accident when albon enter into turn 6 faster as is allowed he finished in almost same position than Russell, may be turn 6 should be redsigned to avoid troubles and reducing Driver risks, once you into the gravel you ar a passenger at 200 ++ km/h ( in my opinion)

Tracks don't cause crashes, failing people and cars do.

[mzso]

I think the penalty was spot on. It's a dirty trick at a dangerous part of the track. Brake checking someone should always come with harsh penalties.

No brake checking occured though.

ALO was going 60 km/h faster in that exact spot the lap before. Tell me again it wasn't a brake check.

60 km/h slower is called being parked on the racing line in qualifying. But apparently it is called good racecraft during the race.

Alright: It wasn't a brake check. Russel lost it. (Potentially aided by the crappy car) He didn't even have to swerve even though he said he was "caught out".
In qualifying they were more prone to go at 60 km/h speed rather than that much slower, before minimum laptimes. They still often go much slower than mere 60 km/h, more like close to pitlane speeds.

[mzso]

GR needs to take responsibility for himself, else he's not going to realise his personal ambition.

So far , Imola twice and slapping VB in the aftermath of the second, Zhou Silverstone, all by himself Singapore, plus others. Not an enviable record is it

6 years in F1 and you list 4 crashes and seem to think that it's a lot.

So now all drivers should expect 60 km/h differential brake checks at any given time on the racing line. So when that time comes when a car really is slowing hard on the racing line ,driver's just keep the throttle on.

Do you happen to know how Gilles Villeneuve was killed ?

Villeneuve died by pushing foolishly when he saw a car ahead.

[Farnborough]

GR needs to take responsibility for himself, else he's not going to realise his personal ambition.

So far , Imola twice and slapping VB in the aftermath of the second, Zhou Silverstone, all by himself Singapore, plus others. Not an enviable record is it

6 years in F1 and you list 4 crashes and seem to think that it's a lot.

So now all drivers should expect 60 km/h differential brake checks at any given time on the racing line. So when that time comes when a car really is slowing hard on the racing line ,driver's just keep the throttle on.

Do you happen to know how Gilles Villeneuve was killed ?

Villeneuve died by pushing foolishly when he saw a car ahead.

Precisely..... I'll set the tone of my observation by saying I've a very good portrait of one single racing driver at home, and that's GV ....

I've tried to indicate what I think happened with GR there, I'm not interested in judgement of FA and leave that to others.

From all on board etc, GR drove himself into that situation comprehensively, thinking only about taking that one position from the driver in front in the last laps. He discarded the care for himself, to potentially gain that few points.

The relationship of this and GV plus Ayrton Senna too, in that they were trying to prove themselves, under a personal duress that in all likelihood compromised their priorities in looking after themselves and their own vulnerability.

In an ideal world thats not a position you'd want to put a driver in, with in this case so little to gain. More judgement is needed from GR or any other driver in this situation I believe, that to fundamentally reduce the inevitable risk that comes within this sport.

My overriding feeling though is, if anyone keeps putting blame on others for failing in looking after their own safety (GR often does) then they ultimate fail to recognise when they're driving into more dangerous situation than they'd want to take on.

The primary advocate for your own life is you. GR needs reasonable counsel to accept and understand that, rather than a support network that simply absolves him of any part.

Its not good to see any racing driver ultimately injured, some are much better in accepting and acting on this and their part in it than others.