2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
bauc
33
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:03 am
Location: Skopje, Macedonia

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

genarro wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:43 pm
shame...i am intrigued what was the cause of such a sudden thing.
They had an idea :!: they saw it does not work in realty, so they decided to end it right away.
Better like this, than this to create a stir inside of the organization which will lead to conflict or uninspired/demoted people.
Формула 1 на Македонски - The first ever Macedonian Formula 1 YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJkjCv ... 6rVRgKASwg

Balalu
Balalu
0
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Emag wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:57 pm
Balalu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:48 pm
I know that I am alone in this, but I am kind of relieved. Was not convinced with his signing from day one. Look at Ferrari...
Just like you should not appoint one team's success to a single person, the same should be said about failures as well. It is true, Ferrari has had periods of struggle while he occupied a high-level role. But we can't forget that he was on that same role when the SF70H and F1-75 were conceived. Both of which were the first cars of their respective ruleset and were great performing cars with weaknesses which were not directly tied to their fundamental design.

The SF70H had a clear power deficit compared to the leading Mercedes of that year, and the F1-75 was crippled by an in-season regulation change.

My point here being, no matter what his role might have been in Ferrari's struggles, he would have definitely been a great asset to have for the new regulations in 2026.
Fair, but you can't ignore the fact that Ferrari made massive gains after changing away from his concept. I'm not saying he is bad, just that, maybe, he is not what we were hoping he is. Perhaps that is why some responsibilities were not given to him by Stella, since Sanchez was hired before Stella became principal(?).
"I showed him [with my hands] and said: I have bigger balls!” - Mika Hakkinen

Balalu
Balalu
0
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Waz wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:00 pm

It won't have helped Sanchez that Ferrari turned up with a significantly better car than the SF-23 was.
This is why I was not convinced with his signing.

The problem now is, what knowledge does he have on the McLaren car, and which other team will benefit from this?
"I showed him [with my hands] and said: I have bigger balls!” - Mika Hakkinen

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
6
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Balalu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:38 pm
Emag wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:57 pm
Balalu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:48 pm
I know that I am alone in this, but I am kind of relieved. Was not convinced with his signing from day one. Look at Ferrari...
Just like you should not appoint one team's success to a single person, the same should be said about failures as well. It is true, Ferrari has had periods of struggle while he occupied a high-level role. But we can't forget that he was on that same role when the SF70H and F1-75 were conceived. Both of which were the first cars of their respective ruleset and were great performing cars with weaknesses which were not directly tied to their fundamental design.

The SF70H had a clear power deficit compared to the leading Mercedes of that year, and the F1-75 was crippled by an in-season regulation change.

My point here being, no matter what his role might have been in Ferrari's struggles, he would have definitely been a great asset to have for the new regulations in 2026.
Fair, but you can't ignore the fact that Ferrari made massive gains after changing away from his concept. I'm not saying he is bad, just that, maybe, he is not what we were hoping he is. Perhaps that is why some responsibilities were not given to him by Stella, since Sanchez was hired before Stella became principal(?).
It doesn't matter. It is important that the team works effectively. If, as the season progresses, the team introduces several big updates that allow the team to achieve podium finishes in all conditions on all tracks, everyone on the forum will quickly forget that Sanchez is no longer on the team.

This happens sometimes. A man like Sanchez simply lacks the powers he needs. Let's just say that in the current structure he cannot reveal his potential, because there are other technical directors on the team who have already distributed responsibilities among themselves.

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:13 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Correct me if I’m wrong guys but Stella became team principle December 22. Wasn’t Sanchez signed in February 23 to start work in January 24?
That would mean he was hired by Stella right?
Just a fan's point of view

User avatar
mwillems
22
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:11 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

I think far too much is being made of this 🤣
I doubt we dodged a bullet, I'm sure he would have been good.

I suspect everyone saw that the structure wasn't going to work and might have been confusing as to who was driving the direction of the car and they had to choose someone for the Chief Designer role. It wasn't him and Rob was probably the natural choice having fulfilled that role at RB and having done that role exceedingly well. Therefore Sanchez chose not to continue in a role whose responsibilities were reduced.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
6
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

I looked carefully at the race onboard for Oscar, Lando, Charles and Carlos. I noticed a peculiarity of the cars. The start of the braking point for Turns 3 and 11 is very different for Ferrari and McLaren. The braking point is difficult to determine in turn 3, because there is always a shadow from the trees, but with turn 11 everything is clearly visible.

So, Ferrari cars brake at 80..75 meters before turn 11, McLaren cars brake at 110..100 meters before turn 11. I don't understand how this works. Is this related to the efficiency of the braking system, the pressure in the brake line, the size of the brake air ducts, but for now I conclude that Ferrari allows you to brake later and take more speed into the turn, while getting to the apex. McLaren, in turn, has a longer braking distance, also hits the apex, but in this case it puts less load on the braking system.

This observation was made during the second stint, when everyone was driving on hard tires from lap 20 to lap 30. Those with direct access to telemetry can see everything for themselves and perhaps even see what speed Ferrari and McLaren have before the braking phase begins. One thing I can say for sure is that the Ferrari slows down more intensely and does not experience problems with the brakes. On the other hand, why doesn't McLaren do the same? Lack of downforce? Less operating pressure in the brake line?

DoctorRadio
DoctorRadio
4
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:43 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

LionsHeart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:27 pm
I looked carefully at the race onboard for Oscar, Lando, Charles and Carlos. I noticed a peculiarity of the cars. The start of the braking point for Turns 3 and 11 is very different for Ferrari and McLaren. The braking point is difficult to determine in turn 3, because there is always a shadow from the trees, but with turn 11 everything is clearly visible.

So, Ferrari cars brake at 80..75 meters before turn 11, McLaren cars brake at 110..100 meters before turn 11. I don't understand how this works. Is this related to the efficiency of the braking system, the pressure in the brake line, the size of the brake air ducts, but for now I conclude that Ferrari allows you to brake later and take more speed into the turn, while getting to the apex. McLaren, in turn, has a longer braking distance, also hits the apex, but in this case it puts less load on the braking system.

This observation was made during the second stint, when everyone was driving on hard tires from lap 20 to lap 30. Those with direct access to telemetry can see everything for themselves and perhaps even see what speed Ferrari and McLaren have before the braking phase begins. One thing I can say for sure is that the Ferrari slows down more intensely and does not experience problems with the brakes. On the other hand, why doesn't McLaren do the same? Lack of downforce? Less operating pressure in the brake line?
If the SF23 had the problem of a chronically weak front end, so much so as to force the technicians to limit the load to the rear axle, the SF24 presents the opposite characteristic, with a particularly solid front end of the car even compared to the Red Bull. “Tomorrow will be tough with Ferrari, we know that they have a very strong front end which is very useful here” said Sergio Perez on the eve of the Australian race, confirming the impressions we had had from the data. The new suspension layout combined with aerodynamics that move the center of pressure decidedly further forward, have transformed the weak point of the previous car into what is for now an absolute strong point, and which brings with it a large number of benefits, such as stability during braking and insertion and the high energy of the flows, which allow the single-seater to be decidedly less sensitive to external factors, such as bumps in the road surface and wind.

(from https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-ana ... co-redbull)

Ferrari has a very strong front end, possibly the strongest, that helps in braking and corner entry.

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
6
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

DoctorRadio wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:45 pm
LionsHeart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:27 pm
I looked carefully at the race onboard for Oscar, Lando, Charles and Carlos. I noticed a peculiarity of the cars. The start of the braking point for Turns 3 and 11 is very different for Ferrari and McLaren. The braking point is difficult to determine in turn 3, because there is always a shadow from the trees, but with turn 11 everything is clearly visible.

So, Ferrari cars brake at 80..75 meters before turn 11, McLaren cars brake at 110..100 meters before turn 11. I don't understand how this works. Is this related to the efficiency of the braking system, the pressure in the brake line, the size of the brake air ducts, but for now I conclude that Ferrari allows you to brake later and take more speed into the turn, while getting to the apex. McLaren, in turn, has a longer braking distance, also hits the apex, but in this case it puts less load on the braking system.

This observation was made during the second stint, when everyone was driving on hard tires from lap 20 to lap 30. Those with direct access to telemetry can see everything for themselves and perhaps even see what speed Ferrari and McLaren have before the braking phase begins. One thing I can say for sure is that the Ferrari slows down more intensely and does not experience problems with the brakes. On the other hand, why doesn't McLaren do the same? Lack of downforce? Less operating pressure in the brake line?
If the SF23 had the problem of a chronically weak front end, so much so as to force the technicians to limit the load to the rear axle, the SF24 presents the opposite characteristic, with a particularly solid front end of the car even compared to the Red Bull. “Tomorrow will be tough with Ferrari, we know that they have a very strong front end which is very useful here” said Sergio Perez on the eve of the Australian race, confirming the impressions we had had from the data. The new suspension layout combined with aerodynamics that move the center of pressure decidedly further forward, have transformed the weak point of the previous car into what is for now an absolute strong point, and which brings with it a large number of benefits, such as stability during braking and insertion and the high energy of the flows, which allow the single-seater to be decidedly less sensitive to external factors, such as bumps in the road surface and wind.

(from https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-ana ... co-redbull)

Ferrari has a very strong front end, possibly the strongest, that helps in braking and corner entry.
Yes, I can only confirm this. This is clearly visible on the onboard. The Ferrari is extremely strong on corner entry, although at the cost of worse corner exit. Charles's racing engineer even asked him to enter turns 6 and 9 more calmly and carefully so as not to lose any further at the exit of turns 6 and 10. This was also clearly visible on the onboard during the race.

Waz
Waz
1
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:29 am

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

CjC wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:58 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong guys but Stella became team principle December 22. Wasn’t Sanchez signed in February 23 to start work in January 24?
That would mean he was hired by Stella right?
Signed up before the SF-23 hit the track. McLaren made incredible progress last year, and it was probably recognized before year end that they would prefer to keep the structure intact going forward.

It's the same incredibly decisive thinking that got them out of a hole in '23.

MTudor
MTudor
0
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:24 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

organic wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:34 am
Very strange indeed. All of the statements just use corporate speak. Hopefully we'll discover nuggets of the truth over time

Formu1a Uno who may still have contacts close to Sanchez seem to be suggesting the decision was made more from Sanchez's side, being unhappy with the position

When first was announced the move of Sanchez I wondered how would Sanchez and Prodromou will work together since basically they do the same thing and now I got my answer.
In Andrea we trust!!!

User avatar
BMMR61
0
Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 12:02 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

If McLaren can be described in a word through this post-Key era it's DECISIVE! The media's job is to gin up juicy stories, pay no attention to the spin, facts matter.

User avatar
BMMR61
0
Joined: Tue May 25, 2021 12:02 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

DoctorRadio wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:45 pm
LionsHeart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:27 pm
I looked carefully at the race onboard for Oscar, Lando, Charles and Carlos. I noticed a peculiarity of the cars. The start of the braking point for Turns 3 and 11 is very different for Ferrari and McLaren. The braking point is difficult to determine in turn 3, because there is always a shadow from the trees, but with turn 11 everything is clearly visible.

If the SF23 had the problem of a chronically weak front end, so much so as to force the technicians to limit the load to the rear axle, the SF24 presents the opposite characteristic, with a particularly solid front end of the car even compared to the Red Bull. “Tomorrow will be tough with Ferrari, we know that they have a very strong front end which is very useful here” said Sergio Perez on the eve of the Australian race, confirming the impressions we had had from the data. The new suspension layout combined with aerodynamics that move the center of pressure decidedly further forward, have transformed the weak point of the previous car into what is for now an absolute strong point, and which brings with it a large number of benefits, such as stability during braking and insertion and the high energy of the flows, which allow the single-seater to be decidedly less sensitive to external factors, such as bumps in the road surface and wind.

(from https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-ana ... co-redbull)

Ferrari has a very strong front end, possibly the strongest, that helps in braking and corner entry.
I'm puzzled by the contradiction of McLaren's performance gain at Australia relative to Ferrari. We can't lay claim to having a RedBull-like front end yet here is Checo saying Ferrari do and more so. Where were our gains found at Australia (relative to the two front runners)?

LionsHeart
LionsHeart
6
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:21 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

BMMR61 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:45 am
DoctorRadio wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:45 pm
LionsHeart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:27 pm
I looked carefully at the race onboard for Oscar, Lando, Charles and Carlos. I noticed a peculiarity of the cars. The start of the braking point for Turns 3 and 11 is very different for Ferrari and McLaren. The braking point is difficult to determine in turn 3, because there is always a shadow from the trees, but with turn 11 everything is clearly visible.

If the SF23 had the problem of a chronically weak front end, so much so as to force the technicians to limit the load to the rear axle, the SF24 presents the opposite characteristic, with a particularly solid front end of the car even compared to the Red Bull. “Tomorrow will be tough with Ferrari, we know that they have a very strong front end which is very useful here” said Sergio Perez on the eve of the Australian race, confirming the impressions we had had from the data. The new suspension layout combined with aerodynamics that move the center of pressure decidedly further forward, have transformed the weak point of the previous car into what is for now an absolute strong point, and which brings with it a large number of benefits, such as stability during braking and insertion and the high energy of the flows, which allow the single-seater to be decidedly less sensitive to external factors, such as bumps in the road surface and wind.

(from https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-ana ... co-redbull)

Ferrari has a very strong front end, possibly the strongest, that helps in braking and corner entry.
I'm puzzled by the contradiction of McLaren's performance gain at Australia relative to Ferrari. We can't lay claim to having a RedBull-like front end yet here is Checo saying Ferrari do and more so. Where were our gains found at Australia (relative to the two front runners)?
Well, generally speaking, it’s a good corners exit. The fastest car is in the second sector, where there are a couple of fast turns and a winding high-speed sector that can be called straight. Good and stable balance, with the exception of a few flying errors from Lando and Oscar. But everyone makes such mistakes, so usually such things are not taken into account.

I think McLaren was fast on the straights, the size of the Saudi spec rear wing helped a lot in the race, when everyone was driving for the main part of the distance without using DRS.

Before the race, I also wrote that in addition to the main degradation, tire granulation (graining) plays a high role here in Australia. And McLaren had the least of them on hard tires. In general, Lando was the fastest of all the drivers in the final third segment of the race. We can say that with empty tanks the car becomes more competitive in the race.

Charles took the fastest lap only thanks to the help of the circles in sectors 2 and 3 using DRS. And even so, Lando was ahead of time by 0.1 seconds. Without the slipstream and DRS, he would not have been able to beat the time of 1:19.9. So, to summarize, Ferrari does not have any big advantage over McLaren on tracks where there are a lot of fast turns. Perhaps we will see something similar in Suzuka.

User avatar
Vanja #66
1346
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:38 pm

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

Post

LionsHeart wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:27 pm
So, Ferrari cars brake at 80..75 meters before turn 11, McLaren cars brake at 110..100 meters before turn 11. I don't understand how this works. Is this related to the efficiency of the braking system, the pressure in the brake line, the size of the brake air ducts, but for now I conclude that Ferrari allows you to brake later and take more speed into the turn, while getting to the apex
Braking performance is not just about brakes, aero and especially suspension also play their part. Braking causes massive weight transfer to the front of course, so stable aero with good CoP transfer to the front will enhance the grip and allow better braking. Likewise, suspension also needs to be well aligned with aero grip for optimal braking performance. Finally, what makes suspension more important is the feel for the drivers, eg. too much anti-dive and driver has absolutely no feel what the car does while braking.

As for brakes themselves, we must not forget the basics - disc and pad material performance at high temperatures is what enables higher pressure in the line without discs and pads deteriorating. And with that, you then proceed to mechanical design for optimal braking. As usual, it's a bout many small details...

BMMR61 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 1:45 am
I'm puzzled by the contradiction of McLaren's performance gain at Australia relative to Ferrari. We can't lay claim to having a RedBull-like front end yet here is Checo saying Ferrari do and more so. Where were our gains found at Australia (relative to the two front runners)?
Arguably, McLaren was already a lot closer already in Jeddah. In Bahrain Piastri was 30s behind front-running Ferrari, while in Jeddah the gap was down to 13s. Norris' had a compromised strategy in Jeddah, so I'm comparing those two races with Piastri. In my view it's down to the new rear wing, it's a really good low-drag wing in the race.

In Australia Norris had the optimal strategy and Piastri moved away to save Norris some time. Sainz also had an optimal strategy, but pushed a bit too much too early in 3rd stint and had some deg at the end, losing him 3-4 seconds. Even so, Piastri was further back than he was in Jeddah, at around 18s before the Russell crash. So I think Norris would have been very close to Leclerc in Jeddah if the race went a bit different.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#Aerogimli
#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie