2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bill_Kar
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 6:50 pm
mkay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 7:49 pm
That is weird. Hamilton’s total time in the pits was 3 seconds slower than Sainz yet he had the second fastest pit stop. Was he held in his pit box to let others through?
3s seems too much. 1s deviation would be reasonable, given actual stop times are withing a few tenths. You sure about this number?
I also remember Sainz doing a 30.something spent in the pit lane and LH doing a 33.something . I thought it was a timing error.

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Juzh
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Bill_Kar wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 10:19 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 6:50 pm
mkay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 7:49 pm
That is weird. Hamilton’s total time in the pits was 3 seconds slower than Sainz yet he had the second fastest pit stop. Was he held in his pit box to let others through?
3s seems too much. 1s deviation would be reasonable, given actual stop times are withing a few tenths. You sure about this number?
I also remember Sainz doing a 30.something spent in the pit lane and LH doing a 33.something . I thought it was a timing error.
Surely it must be.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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mkay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 3:44 pm
Dunlay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 3:40 pm
mkay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 3:37 pm
HAM was faster than RUS in race pace. Would have probably passed him on track if it wasn't for going offtrack at Acqua Minerali.
Did we watch the same race?
On hards, he was absolutely faster. Got the gap down from over 9 seconds to about 3.5 seconds in about 15 laps.

Had HAM not lost 5 seconds going off track, he would have absolutely been in RUS' gearbox. Whether he would have passed him on track, who knows.

RUS did not have good pace on those hards which is why his engineer offered a late pit stop at the cost of track position.
Some needed clarifications about this matter:

Since the hybrid era, it is well-known that HAM prioritizes race setup rather than the qualy one with RUS doing just the opposite since the ground effect car era and that`s why the latter has a quicker tyre warmup phase and better qualy results in general speaking.

In doing so, he emphasized optimizing the car setup for the softer tyre range for that event hence for the first stint race tyre, here being the case of the medium one. Unfortunately, this strategy had a downside in the second stint when he couldn`t maintain the core temp in that set of hard tyres sliding more thus overheating them and ending in a pronounced thermal deg. This strategy is better for a 2 stop race and maybe he bet on that and wished for an SC/VSC phase for this race which unfortunately didn't happen...

This was the main reason why he on the radio requested to stop for new tyres and more of that was willing to let HAM in front knowing that having a big tyre delta he could both pass him and set the fastest lap of the race at the end of it.
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Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 1:20 pm
Some needed clarifications about this matter:

Since the hybrid era, it is well-known that HAM prioritizes race setup rather than the qualy one with RUS doing just the opposite since the ground effect car era and that`s why the latter has a quicker tyre warmup phase and better qualy results in general speaking.
This isn't 'well known', just frequently speculated.

I dont really believe it personally. Nobody in this era of F1 is biasing their setup towards qualifying.

maygun
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Seanspeed wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 2:30 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 1:20 pm
Some needed clarifications about this matter:

Since the hybrid era, it is well-known that HAM prioritizes race setup rather than the qualy one with RUS doing just the opposite since the ground effect car era and that`s why the latter has a quicker tyre warmup phase and better qualy results in general speaking.
This isn't 'well known', just frequently speculated.

I dont really believe it personally. Nobody in this era of F1 is biasing their setup towards qualifying.
I agree and on top of that I don't think a whole set of engineers are this stupid to choose qualy pace over race if there is a big sacrifice for one of them.

mkay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 6:50 pm
mkay wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 7:49 pm
That is weird. Hamilton’s total time in the pits was 3 seconds slower than Sainz yet he had the second fastest pit stop. Was he held in his pit box to let others through?
3s seems too much. 1s deviation would be reasonable, given actual stop times are withing a few tenths. You sure about this number?
Yes. From recollection, Sainz clocked in at ~30.x seconds pit lane time, while Hamilton went up all the way to 33.x

Though it seems to me that this is a FOM issue (i.e., the pitstop was fine) rather than a Merc/HAM issue as we have video footage of Hamilton's stop which was smooth as it could have been.

TeamKoolGreen
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 8:33 pm
Spoutnik wrote:
Sun May 19, 2024 4:24 pm
Russell had a puncture ? Why did he pit ?
Oh. His tyre pressures were fine. But he couldn't manage the pyschological pressure of losing pace hand over fist with a charging 44 car behind him.
:roll: I wont take the bait this week. This speaks for itself.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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On lap 53 of 63, Russell had a 29 seconds gap to Perez. Then Mercedes suggest that they boxed Russell to cover a Perez threat? I don't think that makes sense. They got an extra point for fastest lap because of it so maybe that was the real objective.

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ringo
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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They W14B upgrade was done in Monaco last year. No coincidence they bring upgrades here again.
The w15 had excessive understeer in the slow speed corners in China and Miami. I dont expect it to go well in Monaco. Unless the car was compromised for high speed performance at those two tracks and with Monaco they can fully hedge on a low speed setup and this will remedy the weak front end.

As for qualy and race setups. Yes drivers have setup cars for qualy over the years. Too many examples to count. Just depends on the best compromise. In Monaco for sure the bias will be to qualy. No one will car about race pace. Ask Alonso who was driving slow as frozen molasses last year was it?
For Sure!!

j_ste
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 8:19 pm
On lap 53 of 63, Russell had a 29 seconds gap to Perez. Then Mercedes suggest that they boxed Russell to cover a Perez threat? I don't think that makes sense. They got an extra point for fastest lap because of it so maybe that was the real objective.
If his tyres completely died to the point where they needed to pit him 6-7 laps later, he would have come out behind Sergio.

They were being proactive and overall, it was to their benefit

Luscion
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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j_ste wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 8:19 pm
On lap 53 of 63, Russell had a 29 seconds gap to Perez. Then Mercedes suggest that they boxed Russell to cover a Perez threat? I don't think that makes sense. They got an extra point for fastest lap because of it so maybe that was the real objective.
If his tyres completely died to the point where they needed to pit him 6-7 laps later, he would have come out behind Sergio.
At that point, Russell's pace was quite stable. He was lapping high 1.20, low 1.21 fairly consistently.

I'm not implying that they were favoring Hamilton. Instead, I think it was a "Mercedes" strategy...one that doesn't make sense on its own. They are known for this... I don't think fastest lap was a primary motivation either. That was coincidence. They were really concerned that Russell couldn't manage 10 more laps with a 30 second lead and that objectively doesn't make sense...It's not the first time Mercedes does a strategy that doesn't make sense.
Last edited by AR3-GP on Wed May 22, 2024 10:09 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Hammerfist
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I think they just wanted the fastest lap point. The rest is baloney imo. If Hamilton had the gap to pit and get back in front of perez he would have been pitted instead.

j_ste
j_ste
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 8:07 pm
j_ste wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 8:19 pm
On lap 53 of 63, Russell had a 29 seconds gap to Perez. Then Mercedes suggest that they boxed Russell to cover a Perez threat? I don't think that makes sense. They got an extra point for fastest lap because of it so maybe that was the real objective.
If his tyres completely died to the point where they needed to pit him 6-7 laps later, he would have come out behind Sergio.
At that point, Russell's pace was quite stable. He was lapping high 1.20, low 1.21 fairly consistently.

I'm not implying that they were favoring Hamilton. Instead, I think it was a "Mercedes" strategy...one that doesn't make sense on its own. They are known for this... I don't think fastest lap was a primary motivation either. That was coincidence. They were really concerned that Russell couldn't manage 10 more laps with a 30 second lead and that objectively doesn't make sense...It's not the first time Mercedes does a strategy that doesn't make sense.
Thats the issue with the cliff. There isnt a huge warning, you just fall off it. And then there was also the chance of a late safety car, which pitting George also covered them from.

And in this instance, with the gap to Perez it was an easy decision to make at the time.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 8:07 pm
j_ste wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 6:02 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 8:19 pm
On lap 53 of 63, Russell had a 29 seconds gap to Perez. Then Mercedes suggest that they boxed Russell to cover a Perez threat? I don't think that makes sense. They got an extra point for fastest lap because of it so maybe that was the real objective.
If his tyres completely died to the point where they needed to pit him 6-7 laps later, he would have come out behind Sergio.
At that point, Russell's pace was quite stable. He was lapping high 1.20, low 1.21 fairly consistently.

I'm not implying that they were favoring Hamilton. Instead, I think it was a "Mercedes" strategy...one that doesn't make sense on its own. They are known for this... I don't think fastest lap was a primary motivation either. That was coincidence. They were really concerned that Russell couldn't manage 10 more laps with a 30 second lead and that objectively doesn't make sense...It's not the first time Mercedes does a strategy that doesn't make sense.
Mercedes do the team result first (a surprising idea for some others, perhaps). For the team result, there is less risk in pitting a driver that has, effectively, a free pitstop to ensure no tyre dramas at the end of the race. That it also gets them an additional FL point is a bonus.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.