2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Seanspeed
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:42 pm
Seanspeed wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:58 pm
etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:35 pm
Ducati is best since 2017 ? Even Dallignia will laugh this.
Yes, I dont think that's unreasonable. Dovizioso came in a close 2nd in 2017 on the Ducati. Given that Marquez was in his absolute dominant prime and the fact that Dovi was never a top rider, I do think the Ducati was ultimately the best bike that year.

Ducati suffered a number of seasons from not having any top riders.
They were best only last year and dominant only this year. 2021 they were one of the best. Thats it.
Well I honestly could not disagree more. You must rate the riders vastly different than I do.

2019 I might concede(though look at where the next best Honda is...), but to say Ducati was only best last year is completely wild. As is thinking Ducati weren't dominant last year in the same argument. :/

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 3:42 pm
Seanspeed wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:58 pm
etusch wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2024 2:35 pm
Ducati is best since 2017 ? Even Dallignia will laugh this.
Yes, I dont think that's unreasonable. Dovizioso came in a close 2nd in 2017 on the Ducati. Given that Marquez was in his absolute dominant prime and the fact that Dovi was never a top rider, I do think the Ducati was ultimately the best bike that year.

Ducati suffered a number of seasons from not having any top riders.
They were best only last year and dominant only this year. 2021 they were one of the best. Thats it.

Surely during 2017-2022 they weren’t dominant like now but they have been the best all rounder since 2017! Riders just didn’t cut it until Bagnaia and Martin arrived and even those used to make a ton of mistakes and be nowhere whenever the bike wasn’t perfectly up to their liking!

Yeah Dovi was good at times, Lorenzo took 1,5 years to get settled in and Petrucci was nothing special…
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

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etusch
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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When a bike goes fast only on staights, in fact it is not a good bike. And not needs a fast rider though. ( When a suzuki overtakes a Ducati everywhere but ducati pass it back on straights, this is only anoying and not feel like racing ) It is clearly questionable that even during quartararo bagnaia wdc fight, ducati was not best bike out there. If you bring it with rider side I can say that now best bike is Aprilla but they don't have the rider. No it is not. ( Aprilla don't have good rider enough to fight for wdc, according to me ) But bike is also not good enough.
Especially if ducatis speed comes from aero, for sure that it is not a good bike for now too. ( I don't think it is only aero, I say this for just showing my point)
And tyre is also another big affect on this racing thing. We can not know if tyre were different, who will be fastest.

cheeRS
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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etusch wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2024 7:39 am
When a bike goes fast only on staights, in fact it is not a good bike. And not needs a fast rider though. ( When a suzuki overtakes a Ducati everywhere but ducati pass it back on straights, this is only anoying and not feel like racing ) It is clearly questionable that even during quartararo bagnaia wdc fight, ducati was not best bike out there. If you bring it with rider side I can say that now best bike is Aprilla but they don't have the rider. No it is not. ( Aprilla don't have good rider enough to fight for wdc, according to me ) But bike is also not good enough.
Especially if ducatis speed comes from aero, for sure that it is not a good bike for now too. ( I don't think it is only aero, I say this for just showing my point)
And tyre is also another big affect on this racing thing. We can not know if tyre were different, who will be fastest.
I agree with what you're saying in principle. The caveat is that a bike that is faster in a straight line can make a huge difference and win races more easily than a bike that handles well. We saw that many, many times with Marc and Dovi years ago - Marc would work all around the lap to pass, and then Dovi on the Duc would just pull a gap again on the straightaway and Marc would have to do it all over again. It's a huge advantage.

Even this year, you can see the GP24 pulling a gap on Marc while on the GP23, and supposedly these two bikes aren't that different. I was shocked that even while drafting close to Enea, Marc still could barely keep up with him at Mugello.

Anyway, I think part of the argument about whether Ducati was dominant since 2017 or only after 2021 is masked by a shortage of rider talent. MotoGP is not like F1, where many drivers will do the same laptime if they were in the same car. Riders will push to be close to the fastest rider, no matter what bike he's on. When Marc was out for the year in 2020, it was almost like "where did our reference go? How fast can we go? We don't know anymore, because Marc is gone". I remember throughout 2020, it was almost as if nobody "wanted" to win; they weren't sure how fast they could go or needed to go. I think you see that in the results as we had many many different winners that year. Was there a best bike that year? Was it the Suzuki, the Yamaha, or the Duc? or KTM? It wasn't very clear like in years before.
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Dunlay
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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Pramac is f***"d.


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Andres125sx
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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Indeed :roll:

Tommy.G
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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This race basically showed us why Ducati chose Marc instead of Martin! You cannot be crashing out of the lead like that for no reason (again)…

Now imagine if next year KTM or Aprilia are fast enough to challenge for the championship! Ducati needs two riders who can keep up with the pressure!

Also they need someone who can adapt quickly and overcome any difficulties his bike has! Only Marc can do these things…both Pecco and Martin take ages to adapt to something new or overcome bike difficulties as shown during 2020-2023…

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etusch
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Re: 2024 FIM MotoGP World Championship

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Tommy.G wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:55 am
This race basically showed us why Ducati chose Marc instead of Martin! You cannot be crashing out of the lead like that for no reason (again)…

Now imagine if next year KTM or Aprilia are fast enough to challenge for the championship! Ducati needs two riders who can keep up with the pressure!

Also they need someone who can adapt quickly and overcome any difficulties his bike has! Only Marc can do these things…both Pecco and Martin take ages to adapt to something new or overcome bike difficulties as shown during 2020-2023…
I like to see Martin as a champion over Bagnaia but this last fall cease my expextion with Martin. I know Jorge Lorenso was also falling too much before becoming WDC but I don't know. I think Martin can not achieve it. We will see how he perform with the Aprilla.