2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Formula 1 fan
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I wonder if Mercedes solve drag problem for Hungary race, they could be in good place for pole position and win?

RacePaceDemon
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Formula 1 fan wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:15 pm
I wonder if Mercedes solve drag problem for Hungary race, they could be in good place for pole position and win?
I'm pretty sure that's what some of their latest little changes have been trying to do now that they can rely more on floor downforce. I fully expect the next upgrades to, yes, get a bit more downforce from the floor but also focus majorly on drag reduction

Mansell89
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Have they been good with medium speed this year in general?

Could be a great race- Ferrari should be stronger there so could see a 4 way battle

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Luscion wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:12 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:26 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2024 11:30 pm


Posts like this are what make this board amazing.

Thanks for that level of detail.
His data contradicts his point though!! Max and Lando started with faster times than Lewis.
Thats analyses from two different people, FDataAnalysis and F1TelemetryData, heres a third as well(dont know why this one leaves out Norris)

Big big reasoning flaw there.

This so called race pace analyses are just showing the distribution of lap times. It doesn't explain them. You cannot say that Mercedes was the fastest car because based on this data alone. The context of each if these laptimes is important.

In this race there were signs that McLaren would be the fastest in the dry and wet! The circumstances of poor strategy, bad tactics and Landos burning his tyres up obviously distorted their lap time distribution more than guys who had smoother races.
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venkyhere
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:40 am
This so called race pace analyses are just showing the distribution of lap times. It doesn't explain them.
Statistics are like mini-skirts, they reveal a lot, but they hide more than what they show.
(this is from a cricket commentator)

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SiLo
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mclaren being smart with tyre choice artificially boosted their race pace here. I think the Mercedes was the faster car on both dry tires. Likely not on inters though.
Felipe Baby!

j_ste
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:47 am
Mclaren being smart with tyre choice artificially boosted their race pace here. I think the Mercedes was the faster car on both dry tires. Likely not on inters though.
I think Mercedes were fastest in every situations except for when they were on the mediums and it was wet....so lap 19-26 ish?
On the inters, Lewis was gaining on Lando and pulled away from Max by a lot.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:26 pm

...

His data contradicts his point though!! Max and Lando started with faster times than Lewis.
THIS!

Image


Looking at those 10 laps at the end of the race, when both drivers were given it all, you could see that VER was on average at least 3-tenths faster! And taking into account that he was on the C1/H tyre (at least 8 tenths to C3/S tyre in the race) then you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to reckon that the real RB20 pace race was way faster than the W15 was.

Further analyzing the top 3 teams' lap times in various track conditions we could make some judgments regarding how the cars were set up for the race:

- MCL38 was set up more towards intermediate and a wet track due to being able to maintain the temps in the tyres in those conditions. In contrast, it overheated the C3/S tyre even though NOR had fuel for some 12 laps and knows better than PIA how to manage the tyres. The only caveat was that VER pressured him to not be able to manage the tyres ...
- RB20 was set more for a dry track but on low track temps and C2/M tyre the car was heavy and led to overheating forcing VER to slow the pace down to avoid bigger thermal deg hence switching from a one-stop to a 2-stop which would ruin his race.
- W15 was somehow on the middle ground, being good but not the best in the dry conditions, and also had the same situation in intermediate and wet conditions. And as we could all see that was the winning strategy on Sunday.

In the case of the Merc drivers, we all know that HAM is always prone to look at the big picture setting his car more towards the race, and in contrast, RUS is more prone to have the upper hand on Saturdays, than faiding in the race or at least needing to do more tyre management than usual, something that he is not up to HAM`s level at the moment ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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SiLo
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:59 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:26 pm

...

His data contradicts his point though!! Max and Lando started with faster times than Lewis.
THIS!

https://postimages.org/


Looking at those 10 laps at the end of the race, when both drivers were given it all, you could see that VER was on average at least 3-tenths faster! And taking into account that he was on the C1/H tyre (at least 8 tenths to C3/S tyre in the race) then you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to reckon that the real RB20 pace race was way faster than the W15 was.

Further analyzing the top 3 teams' lap times in various track conditions we could make some judgments regarding how the cars were set up for the race:

- MCL38 was set up more towards intermediate and a wet track due to being able to maintain the temps in the tyres in those conditions. In contrast, it overheated the C3/S tyre even though NOR had fuel for some 12 laps and knows better than PIA how to manage the tyres. The only caveat was that VER pressured him to not be able to manage the tyres ...
- RB20 was set more for a dry track but on low track temps and C2/M tyre the car was heavy and led to overheating forcing VER to slow the pace down to avoid bigger thermal deg hence switching from a one-stop to a 2-stop which would ruin his race.
- W15 was somehow on the middle ground, being good but not the best in the dry conditions, and also had the same situation in intermediate and wet conditions. And as we could all see that was the winning strategy on Sunday.

In the case of the Merc drivers, we all know that HAM is always prone to look at the big picture setting his car more towards the race, and in contrast, RUS is more prone to have the upper hand on Saturdays, than faiding in the race or at least needing to do more tyre management than usual, something that he is not up to HAM`s level at the moment ...
I think the soft was just the worst tyre to be on at that point. If Lewis had gone to the hard, I have no doubt he would have been faster than max.
Felipe Baby!

sport777
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:59 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:26 pm

...

His data contradicts his point though!! Max and Lando started with faster times than Lewis.
THIS!

https://postimages.org/


Looking at those 10 laps at the end of the race, when both drivers were given it all, you could see that VER was on average at least 3-tenths faster! And taking into account that he was on the C1/H tyre (at least 8 tenths to C3/S tyre in the race) then you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to reckon that the real RB20 pace race was way faster than the W15 was.

Further analyzing the top 3 teams' lap times in various track conditions we could make some judgments regarding how the cars were set up for the race:

- MCL38 was set up more towards intermediate and a wet track due to being able to maintain the temps in the tyres in those conditions. In contrast, it overheated the C3/S tyre even though NOR had fuel for some 12 laps and knows better than PIA how to manage the tyres. The only caveat was that VER pressured him to not be able to manage the tyres ...
- RB20 was set more for a dry track but on low track temps and C2/M tyre the car was heavy and led to overheating forcing VER to slow the pace down to avoid bigger thermal deg hence switching from a one-stop to a 2-stop which would ruin his race.
- W15 was somehow on the middle ground, being good but not the best in the dry conditions, and also had the same situation in intermediate and wet conditions. And as we could all see that was the winning strategy on Sunday.

In the case of the Merc drivers, we all know that HAM is always prone to look at the big picture setting his car more towards the race, and in contrast, RUS is more prone to have the upper hand on Saturdays, than faiding in the race or at least needing to do more tyre management than usual, something that he is not up to HAM`s level at the moment ...
firstly, the soft tire on race day was worse than the hard and medium, especially at the end of the race, secondly, if Lewis had worn the hard and Norris the medium in the last segment of the race, then Verstappen would not have caught up with anyone, thirdly, you show us the first stint race where Verstappen lost 0.3-0.4 to Mercedes

justin2102
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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i have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Firstly at that stage of the race Lewis was on used soft tires and i think it has been pointed out already that it wasn't a good race tire compared to the hards and they is no foubt thst the w15 with Lewis behind the wheel heck even George would have been faster or just as fast as the RB20 and i have to disagree with your George statement and we have this race to prove. Had the whole race been dry, I have no doubt that George would have won that race based on his pace on the first few laps because the closest Lewis got in the dry was probably 1.3 sec and Max was on the verge of being gapped by 5secs before the rain hit.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:15 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:59 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 6:26 pm

...

His data contradicts his point though!! Max and Lando started with faster times than Lewis.
THIS!

https://postimages.org/


Looking at those 10 laps at the end of the race, when both drivers were given it all, you could see that VER was on average at least 3-tenths faster! And taking into account that he was on the C1/H tyre (at least 8 tenths to C3/S tyre in the race) then you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to reckon that the real RB20 pace race was way faster than the W15 was.

Further analyzing the top 3 teams' lap times in various track conditions we could make some judgments regarding how the cars were set up for the race:

- MCL38 was set up more towards intermediate and a wet track due to being able to maintain the temps in the tyres in those conditions. In contrast, it overheated the C3/S tyre even though NOR had fuel for some 12 laps and knows better than PIA how to manage the tyres. The only caveat was that VER pressured him to not be able to manage the tyres ...
- RB20 was set more for a dry track but on low track temps and C2/M tyre the car was heavy and led to overheating forcing VER to slow the pace down to avoid bigger thermal deg hence switching from a one-stop to a 2-stop which would ruin his race.
- W15 was somehow on the middle ground, being good but not the best in the dry conditions, and also had the same situation in intermediate and wet conditions. And as we could all see that was the winning strategy on Sunday.

In the case of the Merc drivers, we all know that HAM is always prone to look at the big picture setting his car more towards the race, and in contrast, RUS is more prone to have the upper hand on Saturdays, than faiding in the race or at least needing to do more tyre management than usual, something that he is not up to HAM`s level at the moment ...
I think the soft was just the worst tyre to be on at that point. If Lewis had gone to the hard, I have no doubt he would have been faster than max.
Soft tyres, in this case the C3 tyre, generally have a much lower operation window than H tyres, in our case C1.

So based on track conditions in the last 13 laps or so (26 degrees C track temp and a green track) your best option on both grip and working window point of view is (almost) always the S tyre.

In VER's case, he/the team had opted for the C1/H tyre due to overheating the C2/M tyres in the first stint when he was at full speed trying to keep pace with the Mercedes drivers in front, coz his car setup was towards to dry race and particularly towards the H tyre one, the main race tyre for a one-stop M-H strategy had it would have been a dry race. If he was on the pole on Sunday he would have run in clean air and thus could be able to manage better the C2/M tyre for sure not to overheat them ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

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SiLo
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:17 pm
SiLo wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:15 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 2:59 pm


THIS!

https://postimages.org/


Looking at those 10 laps at the end of the race, when both drivers were given it all, you could see that VER was on average at least 3-tenths faster! And taking into account that he was on the C1/H tyre (at least 8 tenths to C3/S tyre in the race) then you don`t need to be a rocket scientist to reckon that the real RB20 pace race was way faster than the W15 was.

Further analyzing the top 3 teams' lap times in various track conditions we could make some judgments regarding how the cars were set up for the race:

- MCL38 was set up more towards intermediate and a wet track due to being able to maintain the temps in the tyres in those conditions. In contrast, it overheated the C3/S tyre even though NOR had fuel for some 12 laps and knows better than PIA how to manage the tyres. The only caveat was that VER pressured him to not be able to manage the tyres ...
- RB20 was set more for a dry track but on low track temps and C2/M tyre the car was heavy and led to overheating forcing VER to slow the pace down to avoid bigger thermal deg hence switching from a one-stop to a 2-stop which would ruin his race.
- W15 was somehow on the middle ground, being good but not the best in the dry conditions, and also had the same situation in intermediate and wet conditions. And as we could all see that was the winning strategy on Sunday.

In the case of the Merc drivers, we all know that HAM is always prone to look at the big picture setting his car more towards the race, and in contrast, RUS is more prone to have the upper hand on Saturdays, than faiding in the race or at least needing to do more tyre management than usual, something that he is not up to HAM`s level at the moment ...
I think the soft was just the worst tyre to be on at that point. If Lewis had gone to the hard, I have no doubt he would have been faster than max.
Soft tyres, in this case the C3 tyre, generally have a much lower operation window than H tyres, in our case C1.

So based on track conditions in the last 13 laps or so (26 degrees C track temp and a green track) your best option on both grip and working window point of view is (almost) always the S tyre.

In VER's case, he/the team had opted for the C1/H tyre due to overheating the C2/M tyres in the first stint when he was at full speed trying to keep pace with the Mercedes drivers in front, coz his car setup was towards to dry race and particularly towards the H tyre one, the main race tyre for a one-stop M-H strategy had it would have been a dry race. If he was on the pole on Sunday he would have run in clean air and thus could be able to manage better the C2/M tyre for sure not to overheat them ...
What a shame he didnt have the pace to take pole, or be fast enough on the medium tire in the first stint. The RB was easily the third fastest car at Silverstone.
Felipe Baby!

Mosin123
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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justin2102 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:02 pm
i have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Firstly at that stage of the race Lewis was on used soft tires and i think it has been pointed out already that it wasn't a good race tire compared to the hards and they is no foubt thst the w15 with Lewis behind the wheel heck even George would have been faster or just as fast as the RB20 and i have to disagree with your George statement and we have this race to prove. Had the whole race been dry, I have no doubt that George would have won that race based on his pace on the first few laps because the closest Lewis got in the dry was probably 1.3 sec and Max was on the verge of being gapped by 5secs before the rain hit.
by like lap 6, LH was lapping faster than GR. just saying

Dunlay
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Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Mosin123 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:37 pm
justin2102 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:02 pm
i have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Firstly at that stage of the race Lewis was on used soft tires and i think it has been pointed out already that it wasn't a good race tire compared to the hards and they is no foubt thst the w15 with Lewis behind the wheel heck even George would have been faster or just as fast as the RB20 and i have to disagree with your George statement and we have this race to prove. Had the whole race been dry, I have no doubt that George would have won that race based on his pace on the first few laps because the closest Lewis got in the dry was probably 1.3 sec and Max was on the verge of being gapped by 5secs before the rain hit.
by like lap 6, LH was lapping faster than GR. just saying
Lap 6: Lewis - 1.31.746 ; George - 1.31.625.

George was trying to maintain the gap. Whenever Lewis was trying to come closer, George was responding.