2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ali623
ali623
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SirBastianVettel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:52 am
ali623 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:48 am
Their best option in that scenario would be trying to convince Russell to jump ship, with Max joining Merc. With all the pandering Toto has done to Verstappen in the past several months, Russell must surely realise he has no hope at Merc if Max did actually join.
I actually have no idea what Russell's contract situation is at the moment. He's definitely doing a good job compared to Hamilton at the moment, although I'm not yet convinced how he would do in a tight championship battle against a top-tier driver.
Russell and Hamilton both signed contracts till the end of 2025, but it turned out Hamilton's was an option for a second year, which allowed him to sign with Ferrari. Not sure if that's the same with Russell's though.

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Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SirBastianVettel wrote:
ali623 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:48 am
Their best option in that scenario would be trying to convince Russell to jump ship, with Max joining Merc. With all the pandering Toto has done to Verstappen in the past several months, Russell must surely realise he has no hope at Merc if Max did actually join.
I actually have no idea what Russell's contract situation is at the moment. He's definitely doing a good job compared to Hamilton at the moment, although I'm not yet convinced how he would do in a tight championship battle against a top-tier driver.
Russell's current contract runs until the end of 2025.

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Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ali623 wrote:
SirBastianVettel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:52 am
ali623 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:48 am
Their best option in that scenario would be trying to convince Russell to jump ship, with Max joining Merc. With all the pandering Toto has done to Verstappen in the past several months, Russell must surely realise he has no hope at Merc if Max did actually join.
I actually have no idea what Russell's contract situation is at the moment. He's definitely doing a good job compared to Hamilton at the moment, although I'm not yet convinced how he would do in a tight championship battle against a top-tier driver.
Russell and Hamilton both signed contracts till the end of 2025, but it turned out Hamilton's was an option for a second year, which allowed him to sign with Ferrari. Not sure if that's the same with Russell's though.
I think George does not have such status as Lewis, who can insert non-performance escape clauses into his contracts.

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Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ali623 wrote:
SirBastianVettel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:25 am
Honestly, 1.5 tenths isn't even that much. And that's only if it works as planned. They are incredibly lucky that McLaren/Norris keep messing up otherwise both the WDC and WCC would have been in jeopardy after this triple header.

If they lose Max for next season they are properly f*cked imo. I don't see who they could get to replace him, none of the top talents are available I think. Alonso (too old anyway), Hamilton, Leclerc and Norris (if you consider him a top talent) are all taken. I wonder if Max is seriously considering switching to Mercedes or if he is renegotiating with Red Bull for some serious dough.
Their best option in that scenario would be trying to convince Russell to jump ship, with Max joining Merc. With all the pandering Toto has done to Verstappen in the past several months, Russell must surely realise he has no hope at Merc if Max did actually join.
If Merc were the dominant team, it would be hard to leave the team. On the other hand, with all this Toto's Verstappen and Antonelli hype, it could be a wise thing to jump to Red Bull if the chance arose.

Cassius
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SirBastianVettel wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:56 am
Sergej wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:45 am
If Mercedes keeps being competitive and RB doesn't recover momentum, jumping in for 2025 could be a good choice for Max, he could have a shot at the title (this RB in 2025 will disappear without Max, real contender will be McLaren) and be in the right place for 2026 PU overhaul; I'm sure Max will keep an eye on how Mercedes performs in the next few events.
I'm not fully convinced yet that Mercedes is really closing the gap all that much to McLaren and Red Bull. It seems to me that (for now) it was mostly due to low temperatures at the Canadian and British Grands Prix. If they are still competitive in Hungary and Belgium at high temperatures then I would seriously consider jumping ship if I was Max.
A bit premature. We haven't seen their upgrade yet. The 1.5 tenths is all speculation as it is not a direct quote. The upgrade needs to be good enough to allow Max to win 2024 WDC. In 2025 they can fix the flaws of the RB20, also by copying some of the solutions from Merc and McL. We know they know where they are lacking, but can only fix partially in 2024.

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Paa
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max has been with Red Bull since forever. Now they had 4-5 difficult races (possibly due to a FIA downgrade?) - in which period he still collected by far the most points and comfortably winning the WDC. And everybody talks about jumping ships right away. Isn't it a bit premature?

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chrisc90
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I really can’t see max leaving. There’s been far tougher years for him than this last handful of races.

Also, 1.5tenths is about the norm for an upgrade package. Unless it’s from Ferrari camp when it’s 2-3x that

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Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:I really can’t see max leaving. There’s been far tougher years for him than this last handful of races.

Also, 1.5tenths is about the norm for an upgrade package. Unless it’s from Ferrari camp when it’s 2-3x that
It's not relevant to compare Max's times before championships. When you get a taste of success, after that, you aren't going to just hang around on the track just for loyalty to the team. Hamilton had enough of Merc within two years without success and jumping Ferrari which can't also promise success better than Merc.

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organic
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Marko (speaking about the Hungary update):
"It has to work. Otherwise it doesn't look good"
And Marko on max:
"There are clauses in Max's contract that make it possible - if certain things happen - to leave the team at any time."

Bill
Bill
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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the rules are structured such that no team can find big gains and dominate.teams at the top are finding hard to find gains.redbull can find perfomance on flexiwings and on improving their suspension.

SirBastianVettel
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Paa wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 12:29 pm
Max has been with Red Bull since forever. Now they had 4-5 difficult races (possibly due to a FIA downgrade?) - in which period he still collected by far the most points and comfortably winning the WDC. And everybody talks about jumping ships right away. Isn't it a bit premature?
I don't think the current performance is the main reason for him (potentially) wanting to leave the team. I think the whole Horner situation + Newey leaving + (rumoured) '26 PU struggles all together might be the why he would consider jumping ship.

I know it's always going to be a gamble for 2026, but if I had to bet it would be on Mercedes followed by Ferrari.

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Wouter
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SILVERSTONE CIRCUIT
Formula 1 has changed a lot in 20 years. Join David Coulthard and reigning World Champion,
Max Verstappen, for a trip down memory lane as we drive the RB1 alongside the RB20 on track.


The Power of Dreams!

Sergej
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think that considering leaving Red Bull is not that premature. We should consider that focus is not 2025, it's 2026, when the PU overhaul will mean you can easily find yourself completely out of win contention if your team fails the new engine regulation. Obviously we don't how RBPT work is really going on and surely Max will have a clear picture about this, but I think it's understandable that Mercedes, at least on paper, can offer better warrantees to nail the new PU; and a Mercedes seat could be not available anymore in 2025 for 2026, if Toto chooses to commit to Kimi, maybe it's a train you have to take now.

Cassius
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I have said it before. Max doesn't come across as an opportunist. The way he is loyal to his team, Marko, his friendship with Norris shows he will not make any opportunistic decisions. He knew what he was getting into and he and the team are showing they trust the process of developing an own engine. Whether the rumours are true or not, doesn't matter. There were almost 2 years to go when these rumours appeared. He is giving the team the trust and chance to prove they can build a competitive engine. If in 2026 they are massively behind without any chance of closing the gap in 1-3 years he might indeed move in 2027.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If it’s only 1.5 tenths, Mercedes will surpass them this year and be ahead next year. Mercedes has much more windtunnel and CFD time. Mercedes also has introduced very few aerodynamic updates to this point and Wolff said a lot of performance is coming.

Performance in Hungary and Spa will set the future for the team. The position of both drivers will become clear.

3 tenths and there’s a good chance of keeping Ver for 2025.