2025 Miami Grand Prix - Miami USA, May 02-04

[zeph]

The grip is born from the tyre management.

No.
Check the quali laps (not just Q3) and the traction McLaren showed from T16 and T17.
Mechanical grip is how the tyres are 'pressed' into the tarmac when there is no aero. Non degraded tyres towards end of a stint duration helps 'show it glaringly' in relation to other cars. That's all. But the difference is shown even on quali tyres which haven't 'aged'.

But that seems to ignore the fact that Verstappen got pole, with Norris and Antonelli within 0.067 seconds. McLaren is quick, but in quali they don't exactly dominate. Their pace over a race distance is crushing, and that seems to confirm the notion that it's about tire management.

[Yurasyk]

A few weeks ago I saw someone mentioned that Max is on a long streak of race finishes Podium - Not podium - Podium... and No podium this time again. Somehow, this series is still alive.

[DiogoBrand]

Looking back at it, it seems like Oscar dummied Max into that overtake. He kept his car on the outside and made it look like he was going on the outside which made Max to do his usual thing of going deep into the corner to run the car on the outside, out of the track, but Oscar slammed the brake and let Max go deep and then pulled the overtake. Max was never trying to make the corner properly. It was obvious. That was really sharp racing by Oscar. Other drivers would have tried to keep the momentum on the outside and try and overtake, but then Max would do the usual thing of running them out of track. Nice trick there by Oscar.

Honestly, I was on the fence before, but that one move was a good display that maybe Oscar is more championship material than Lando. Being able to use Max's own dirty tactics against him that way is a stark contrast to Lando, who always seem to have a lot more difficulty in that situation.
The fact of the matter is, Max is probably gonna keep getting away with his usual BS this season (even more than usual) because the FIA wants to keep the WDC fight alive for as long as possible, so both McLaren guys will have to learn to deal with it. If Oscar keeps behaving the way he did today that can be a big advantage over Norris.

That 'dirty tactic' was the same Piastri pulled in last race and the sprint. Marginally ahead? Push the other off. Thats what all the regulation ambiguity boiled down to.

Max was never going to make that corner at Saudi Arabia. He intentionally went too fast knowing he would go outside regardless if Oscar gave him space or not. His expectation was that the marshalls would let him go away with it as usual, and even though they didn't, he ended up losing less time with the penalty than he would if he stayed in dirty air. So please let me know, how is Piastri losing time on dirty air of a driver that went outside the track to pass him dirty tactics?

[Wouter]

[DDopey]

Honestly, I was on the fence before, but that one move was a good display that maybe Oscar is more championship material than Lando. Being able to use Max's own dirty tactics against him that way is a stark contrast to Lando, who always seem to have a lot more difficulty in that situation.
The fact of the matter is, Max is probably gonna keep getting away with his usual BS this season (even more than usual) because the FIA wants to keep the WDC fight alive for as long as possible, so both McLaren guys will have to learn to deal with it. If Oscar keeps behaving the way he did today that can be a big advantage over Norris.

That 'dirty tactic' was the same Piastri pulled in last race and the sprint. Marginally ahead? Push the other off. Thats what all the regulation ambiguity boiled down to.

Max was never going to make that corner at Saudi Arabia. He intentionally went too fast knowing he would go outside regardless if Oscar gave him space or not. His expectation was that the marshalls would let him go away with it as usual, and even though they didn't, he ended up losing less time with the penalty than he would if he stayed in dirty air. So please let me know, how is Piastri losing time on dirty air of a driver that went outside the track to pass him dirty tactics?

I know the bs of Palmer gets repeated a lot. But Max already made the corner if you check the replays.

[Rikhart]

Honestly, I was on the fence before, but that one move was a good display that maybe Oscar is more championship material than Lando. Being able to use Max's own dirty tactics against him that way is a stark contrast to Lando, who always seem to have a lot more difficulty in that situation.
The fact of the matter is, Max is probably gonna keep getting away with his usual BS this season (even more than usual) because the FIA wants to keep the WDC fight alive for as long as possible, so both McLaren guys will have to learn to deal with it. If Oscar keeps behaving the way he did today that can be a big advantage over Norris.

That 'dirty tactic' was the same Piastri pulled in last race and the sprint. Marginally ahead? Push the other off. Thats what all the regulation ambiguity boiled down to.

Max was never going to make that corner at Saudi Arabia. He intentionally went too fast knowing he would go outside regardless if Oscar gave him space or not. His expectation was that the marshalls would let him go away with it as usual, and even though they didn't, he ended up losing less time with the penalty than he would if he stayed in dirty air. So please let me know, how is Piastri losing time on dirty air of a driver that went outside the track to pass him dirty tactics?

He would easily make the corner, in fact he was much better positioned than Piastri to take it, just look at the angles each car is pointing when reaching the corner.

[thestig84]

He would easily make the corner . Yeah right.

I think I'll trust ex F1 drivers take on it. "The reality is he had no chance of keeping his car on the road with his mid corner speed and wide line"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 8IOGfi0vks

Forget looking at angles, Max was going quicker than he did in qualifying. He wasn't making the corner.

[chrisc90]

He would easily make the corner . Yeah right.

I think I'll trust ex F1 drivers take on it. "The reality is he had no chance of keeping his car on the road with his mid corner speed and wide line"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 8IOGfi0vks

Forget looking at angles, Max was going quicker than he did in qualifying. He wasn't making the corner.

The Jeddah “faster than qualifying” was proven to be rubbish facts. I posted the telemetry in the Jeddah thread.

Here it is for reference.
viewtopic.php?p=1281134#p1281134

[thestig84]

He would easily make the corner . Yeah right.

I think I'll trust ex F1 drivers take on it. "The reality is he had no chance of keeping his car on the road with his mid corner speed and wide line"

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 8IOGfi0vks

Forget looking at angles, Max was going quicker than he did in qualifying. He wasn't making the corner.

The Jeddah “faster than qualifying” was proven to be rubbish facts. I posted the telemetry in the Jeddah thread.

Here it is for reference.
viewtopic.php?p=1281134#p1281134

'Rubbish facts' Again I think I will trust the ex F1 driver on this one thanks. His telemetry is approx 4:20 explaining what you call rubbish

[AR3-GP]

Saudi topic is here: viewtopic.php?t=32198&start=225


Miami turned out to be another easy 1-stop race despite Pirelli bringing 1 step softer tire compounds. I'm starting to think it's just not possible to make the teams stop twice unless you have unusually brutish tarmac like in Bahrain. In fact, most of the circuits are being asked to improve their facilities (repaving) which has the opposite effect to what teams seem to want. Fresh tarmac increases the odds of a dull 1 stop procession.

[DChemTech]

Max was never going to make that corner at Saudi Arabia. He intentionally went too fast knowing he would go outside regardless if Oscar gave him space or not. His expectation was that the marshalls would let him go away with it as usual, and even though they didn't, he ended up losing less time with the penalty than he would if he stayed in dirty air. So please let me know, how is Piastri losing time on dirty air of a driver that went outside the track to pass him dirty tactics?

Whether Max would or would not make the corner is not the point. If he did not, he would have to give the place back or be appropriately punished, as he was.
The point is that Piastri being marginally ahead was used to justify him pushing Max off track, regardless of whether he would make the corner. And then he did it again with Antonelli in sprint race. The 'rule' (or guideline?) that one is entitled to push the other off when marginally ahead does not promote good wheel-to-wheel racing, but as long as it's allowed everyone will do it. Still, when Max did it to Norris in the race, people start calling it 'dirty driving'. This kind of 'dirty driving' is not a Max problem, it's a regulation problem.

[toraabe]

Ok. Let's put it this way. If behind at apex you need to get behind regardless of inside or outside

[toraabe]

Ok. Let's put it this way. If behind at apex you need to get behind regardless of inside or outside. As today standards Max knows exactly how to use them to his advantage... Just cleverness.

[DChemTech]

Ok. Let's put it this way. If behind at apex you need to get behind regardless of inside or outside

No, the whole issue is in that any rule that 'forces' a driver to yield when marginally behind (or otherwise, states the driver is 'entitled' to a corner - i.e. can disregard the opposition - when marginally ahead) kills wheel-to-wheel action.
The best duels are duels where drivers can go side by side through a corner. Inevitably one of them will be marginally ahead going in/at the apex, and thus any rule that hands the corner to them is going to give a simple outcome: disregard the other, and claim victory.

I would prefer it that, if cars are side by side (to some substantial degree - not half a front wing element), they need to maintain a cars width of space (or in case there is tarmac, allow the other car to have at least one wheel on the track proper) for exciting racing. There will always be debate about what substantial is - maybe 'at minimum front and rear axle need to align', or 'front axle and cockpit need to align at minimum' - but there's definitely better options than the current.

[DiogoBrand]

Max was never going to make that corner at Saudi Arabia. He intentionally went too fast knowing he would go outside regardless if Oscar gave him space or not. His expectation was that the marshalls would let him go away with it as usual, and even though they didn't, he ended up losing less time with the penalty than he would if he stayed in dirty air. So please let me know, how is Piastri losing time on dirty air of a driver that went outside the track to pass him dirty tactics?

Whether Max would or would not make the corner is not the point. If he did not, he would have to give the place back or be appropriately punished, as he was.
The point is that Piastri being marginally ahead was used to justify him pushing Max off track, regardless of whether he would make the corner. And then he did it again with Antonelli in sprint race. The 'rule' (or guideline?) that one is entitled to push the other off when marginally ahead does not promote good wheel-to-wheel racing, but as long as it's allowed everyone will do it. Still, when Max did it to Norris in the race, people start calling it 'dirty driving'. This kind of 'dirty driving' is not a Max problem, it's a regulation problem.

The fact that Max pushed Norris off is not the issue (Well, it is, but since the FIA is allowing everyone to do it then in this case it isn't), it's the fact that he moved away from his line mid corner to push him off and would have definitely caused an accident if Norris didn't take avoiding action, losing 4 places in the process. Wether or not he lost control is irrelevant, he's the one responsible for keeping his car in control, and if he lost it twice on the first two corners of the race that's his own problem.