F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Caito
Caito
13
Joined: 16 Jun 2009, 05:30
Location: Switzerland

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Thank you very much! I don't know much about all this stuff, but I do have great curiosity about them.


I'll keep an eye on the thread.

Bye!


Caito.-
Come back 747, we miss you!!

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: 24 Dec 2004, 10:18

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Brian.G-

Please post more when you finish your "dissection". Like Tim.Wright, I'm curious why there is a bond line between the upper and lower sections.

I'd also be interested to see what the ply stack looks like (thickness, number of plies, percentage of uni's versus cloth, etc.).

Regards,
riff_raff
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

mach11
mach11
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009, 14:28
Location: India

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Wow... what a thread... Its really great and i am looking forward to gaining more knowledge on this topic...

Brain G, thankyou for posting those pics....

Thank You F1technical..
"Be the change that you wish to see most in your world" -- Mahatma Gandhi

F1 Oldtimer
F1 Oldtimer
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Joined: 05 Feb 2011, 13:43

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Brian G. you have a PM.

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Tim.Wright
330
Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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riff_raff wrote:Brian.G-

Please post more when you finish your "dissection". Like Tim.Wright, I'm curious why there is a bond line between the upper and lower sections.

I'd also be interested to see what the ply stack looks like (thickness, number of plies, percentage of uni's versus cloth, etc.).

Regards,
riff_raff
One things thats always interested me is that the outer ply is always a woven fabric. I'm pretty sure the rest of the plies underneath are UD and I suspect the outer ply is a low modulus material only for damage protection to the highly stessed UD plies.

Unfortunately I don't really know a method of identifying UD from woven plies in a cured part. Any ideas?

Tim
Not the engineer at Force India

Brian.G
Brian.G
334
Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 23:52
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Coming very soon guys, along with a pushrod dissection which Ill start another thread for :!:

Brian,
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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This nice thread makes me think how hard it is to design and build an F1 car.

To have the best car you have to have the best EVERYTHING, including wishbones. I you can see there are a million things you can optimize there.

I know good is enemy of perfect, but still I wonder the time/resource consuming thing this is.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: 24 Dec 2004, 10:18

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Tim.Wright,

I'm not a composite structures guy, but my understanding is that the 45deg cloth plies are there to stabilize the uni plies in buckling. A typical laminate would have inner and outer 45deg cloth plies, with additional 45deg cloth plies inserted between every 3rd or 4th uni ply.

As for impact damage protection, the leading edge of the wishbone is the surface most likely to suffer impact. And that's where the bond line is located. But of course, from a purely structural standpoint, putting the bond line along the wishbone's neutral axis in bending is the best place for it.

riff_raff
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

Brian.G
Brian.G
334
Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 23:52
Location: Ireland

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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riff_raff wrote:Tim.Wright,

I'm not a composite structures guy, but my understanding is that the 45deg cloth plies are there to stabilize the uni plies in buckling. A typical laminate would have inner and outer 45deg cloth plies, with additional 45deg cloth plies inserted between every 3rd or 4th uni ply.

As for impact damage protection, the leading edge of the wishbone is the surface most likely to suffer impact. And that's where the bond line is located. But of course, from a purely structural standpoint, putting the bond line along the wishbone's neutral axis in bending is the best place for it.

riff_raff
Coming soon guys, got distracted, been working hard on a casting, the part below
Image

BG
If you think you cant, you wont, If you think you can, you will

ysyy88
ysyy88
0
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 05:02

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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what is the rope used for?

By the way, is this wishborn in the front suspension or in the rear suspension?

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Wow. I haven't seen this thread, I must be blind. Beautiful.

I'm not talking entirely about the wishbone ("wishborn"? I like that typo). The most beautiful things are the ones we share. Thanks. I know this thread is going to be legendary.
Ciro

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Tim.Wright wrote:
riff_raff wrote:Brian.G-

Please post more when you finish your "dissection". Like Tim.Wright, I'm curious why there is a bond line between the upper and lower sections.

I'd also be interested to see what the ply stack looks like (thickness, number of plies, percentage of uni's versus cloth, etc.).

Regards,
riff_raff
One things thats always interested me is that the outer ply is always a woven fabric. I'm pretty sure the rest of the plies underneath are UD and I suspect the outer ply is a low modulus material only for damage protection to the highly stessed UD plies.

Unfortunately I don't really know a method of identifying UD from woven plies in a cured part. Any ideas?

Tim
you can sand through the piles one at a time

conni
conni
0
Joined: 07 Jan 2010, 22:09

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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the rope as you call it are the kevlar wheel tethers, they are laid up into the outer cover and cured then bonded to the wishbone but the cover should come off with the use of a heat gun to soften the glue as you will struggle to cut through the kevlar as its what they use in the suites to stop you cutting your leg off with a chain saw

on a side note those with spherical bearings at each end do not bend at all but those that have a solid mount will have flexures built into the design to allow the last 4or5 inches to flex

conni

PVDL
PVDL
0
Joined: 06 Jun 2012, 02:00
Location: Lake Forest, CA USA

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

Post

Another fabulous thread by You.

We all owe you for your time and money spent towards our education! I for one will be sending you a PM to find out how I can contribute to the expense incurred for this post and the awesome head post.

Regarding the lower rear arm, the most highly stressed A-arm of the suspension, I am surprised at the quality of the leading edge joint. You would think this could be a potential stress riser even though its in the least flexed area.

I will be most interested to see the surface preparation/texture and coatings used for the bond of the metal parts to the laminates.


Cheers, Paul

PVDL
PVDL
0
Joined: 06 Jun 2012, 02:00
Location: Lake Forest, CA USA

Re: F1 wishbone construction, a closer look

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Oops, just realized this is years old!! Did the A-arm get dissected?

Paul