Wet driver fanboy fest

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Wet driver fanboy fest

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SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:I don't remember any wet race after 2008 with Hamilton performing better than his team mate...
What you really should do is make a list. Pick Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton and Massa. (and maybe some more guys)

Then find all the wet races and see who won the most. Then you´ll have your answer.
Psst.... it´s not Vettel. (despite 4,5 years of the best machine)

-
As for your quote, Silverstone 2012, Canada 2011(just of the top of my head) before the accident (you know the moment where the winner of the GP looked to be standing still when Hamilton overtook him in the last corner)
And Spa 2010.

You're correct about Vettel. Despite the car advantage, the only wet win that he's had in the last 4 years is Malaysia last year (if you can call that wet) and we all know what happened there...

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turbof1
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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Ok I only brought up an opinion about a wet 2014 australian gp. No need to turn this a turf war. As long as we get to see some epic driving from any driver, I don't think it matters too much no?
#AeroFrodo

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:I don't remember any wet race after 2008 with Hamilton performing better than his team mate...
What you really should do is make a list. Pick Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton and Massa. (and maybe some more guys)
No time for that...so I guess: Button 3 wins, Alonso 2 wins, Vettel 2 wins. Correct?
SectorOne wrote: Then find all the wet races and see who won the most. Then you´ll have your answer.
Psst.... it´s not Vettel. (despite 4,5 years of the best machine)
Does this give any truth with Vettel loosing a win in Korea due to the engine and one in the last, completely dry laps of Canada?
I don't see the point in that, it is just too simple to compare the number.
SectorOne wrote: As for your quote, Silverstone 2012, Canada 2011(just of the top of my head) before the accident (you know the moment where the winner of the GP looked to be standing still when Hamilton overtook him in the last corner)
There was no rain in these races :?: :?: :?:
Edit: Sorry, mixed up the year from the Canada GP.
Last edited by basti313 on Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SilverArrow10
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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hmm no rain at the 2011 Canadian grand prix. Quite a boring and dry race that one. Why they stopped for two hours half way through I don't know. :lol: off topic but couldn't resist it.
"Leave it to Lewis Hamilton to ruin Redbull's day" - Martin Brundle

"Ok Lewis, Its Hammertime!!" - Peter Bonnington

"Fresh tires, 15 laps. What do you think Lewis Hamilton is going to do?" - Martin Brundle

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motobaleno
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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hey guys, what about stopping speculations about which driver is more or less divine? I would like reading posts about next gp...

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SectorOne
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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basti313 wrote:No time for that...so I guess: Button 3 wins, Alonso 2 wins, Vettel 2 wins. Correct?
No wonder you have no time, spending all of it arguing about it instead.
basti313 wrote: Does this give any truth with Vettel loosing a win in Korea due to the engine and one in the last, completely dry laps of Canada?
Any truth to what? What does Vettel´s "truth" have to do with who´s won the most wet races? I´m confused.
Mixing my post up with someone else?

basti313 wrote:There was no rain in these races :?: :?: :?:
Ahh i mixed up quali with race for Silverstone. But there´s plenty, SPA 2010 as someone said for example.

There was certainly rain in Canada.
Image

Anyway, enough from me.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:No time for that...so I guess: Button 3 wins, Alonso 2 wins, Vettel 2 wins. Correct?
No wonder you have no time, spending all of it arguing about it instead.

Any truth to what? What does Vettel´s "truth" have to do with who´s won the most wet races? I´m confused.
Mixing my post up with someone else?
You came up with counting the wins. So what have you been expecting?

For me it is clear, that counting the wins of anyone does not reveal anything in the question if Vettel or Hamiton is the "wet weather specialist" Ringo was talking about on the last page. And I only answered on Ringo's strange post on the last page with comparing drivers and cars in a way that is poor for a technical forum before you came up with counting.
SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:There was no rain in these races :?: :?: :?:
Ahh i mixed up quali with race for Silverstone. But there´s plenty, SPA 2010 as someone said for example.

There was certainly rain in Canada.
And I mixed up the year of the Canadian GP...

Spa 2010 was the only win of Hamilton in the rain. Performing better because his team mates front wing was killed at the start...and a few laps in Canada befor running into his team mate...well...so this is the rain specialist left in F1... [-o<


Coming back to Oz:
When Hamilton wins on Sunday in the rain...will this be the proof for him being the rain specialist or the proof for the Mercedes to be the best drivable car on the grid?

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mikeerfol
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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basti313 wrote:
SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:No time for that...so I guess: Button 3 wins, Alonso 2 wins, Vettel 2 wins. Correct?
No wonder you have no time, spending all of it arguing about it instead.

Any truth to what? What does Vettel´s "truth" have to do with who´s won the most wet races? I´m confused.
Mixing my post up with someone else?
You came up with counting the wins. So what have you been expecting?

For me it is clear, that counting the wins of anyone does not reveal anything in the question if Vettel or Hamiton is the "wet weather specialist" Ringo was talking about on the last page. And I only answered on Ringo's strange post on the last page with comparing drivers and cars in a way that is poor for a technical forum before you came up with counting.
SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:There was no rain in these races :?: :?: :?:
Ahh i mixed up quali with race for Silverstone. But there´s plenty, SPA 2010 as someone said for example.

There was certainly rain in Canada.
And I mixed up the year of the Canadian GP...

Spa 2010 was the only win of Hamilton in the rain. Performing better because his team mates front wing was killed at the start...and a few laps in Canada befor running into his team mate...well...so this is the rain specialist left in F1... [-o<
Well not exactly, Vettel lost control and hit him. Anyway shouldn't we stop being off-topic?

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Juzh
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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Arguing with self-centric, facts omitting, excuse finding hamilton fans is really like talking to a wall.

ACJJ619
ACJJ619
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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As a Hamilton fan I'd argue that Hamilton is above-average in the wet but not the God he's perceived as. Silverstone 2008 was widely regarded as one of F1's greatest drives but too many Hamilton fans cling onto that race and use it to claim he's a wet weather God. Spa 2010 and Fuji 2007 are a couple more examples off the top of my head where he's driven very well in the wet but there are also examples I could list where he's performed quite averagely when the heavens opened.

Button I feel is very good at knowing which tyres to be on but his actual skill in the wet I don't feel is particularly special. I think his wet-weather driving is made to look a bit better by regularly knowing the correct tyres to be on.

But regardless, this thread is about Melbourne 2014. I think a Williams will win. Couldn't name which.

el-Magico
el-Magico
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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Only two drivers were true rain masters.. Senna and Schumacher. 8)

Ontopic, keep your eyeballs on the Ferrari, they will be a big surprise ( in a positive way) [-o<
Quote of the year: "almost as sickening as the Velcro fluff under Lewis' cap..."

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SectorOne
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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basti313 wrote:You came up with counting the wins. So what have you been expecting?
Expecting what do you mean? I told you to rack up the numbers, you said you had no time, i said well that´s because you are arguing in here and now you throw me another curveball by saying "so what have you been expecting?"
basti313 wrote:Spa 2010 was the only win of Hamilton in the rain.
Did you have a brainfreeze?
(Vettel hit Button in SPA as well and it was the radiator that was smashed rather then the front wing (although it might have been broken too)

basti313 wrote:When Hamilton wins on Sunday in the rain...will this be the proof for him being the rain specialist or the proof for the Mercedes to be the best drivable car on the grid?
I think most people would agree that Hamilton is a rain specialist, fan or no fan.
He´s not Senna but then again who is.

Out of all F1 drivers from Senna and up there´s only two guys ahead of Hamilton in wet races/wins percentage.
One is Senna and the other is Schumacher.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

basti313
basti313
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:You came up with counting the wins. So what have you been expecting?
Expecting what do you mean? I told you to rack up the numbers, you said you had no time, i said well that´s because you are arguing in here and now you throw me another curveball by saying "so what have you been expecting?"
I racked up the numbers. So what do they tell me about the rain expert?
SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:Spa 2010 was the only win of Hamilton in the rain.
Did you have a brainfreeze?
You didn't get that I was talking about the time past 2008, right? You should better read if you join a discussion...
SectorOne wrote: (Vettel hit Button in SPA as well and it was the radiator that was smashed rather then the front wing (although it might have been broken too)
This is getting stupid...
Button destroyed his front wing right at the beginning of the GP. That was why Hamilton was much faster than Button and that and the few laps at the beginning of the Canada GP were the only race laps with Ham being constantly faster than Button.
2009 even mighty Kovaleinen was faster in the rain.
SectorOne wrote:
basti313 wrote:When Hamilton wins on Sunday in the rain...will this be the proof for him being the rain specialist or the proof for the Mercedes to be the best drivable car on the grid?
I think most people would agree that Hamilton is a rain specialist, fan or no fan.
He´s not Senna but then again who is.

Out of all F1 drivers from Senna and up there´s only two guys ahead of Hamilton in wet races/wins percentage.
One is Senna and the other is Schumacher.
Which comes down to two wins in 2008...all the other years Hamilton had very good or really poor performances in the rain. Like nearly every other driver in todays grid or when it comes to Ham like in the dry. I can not talk about a rain specialist without any visible constancy. It is the same for Vettel, Alonso or Button. One drive in the rain is good, the next one is poor.

So I guess when it rains on Sunday it will be a coin toss between Rosberg and Hamilton...who will have his good-rain-day and who will have his poor-rain-day?

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SectorOne
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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basti313 wrote:I racked up the numbers. So what do they tell me about the rain expert?
Oh ok so you did rack them up. Even though you specifically said you had no time.
It would be alot easier if you tell the truth from the start and not contradict yourself in one post.
basti313 wrote: You didn't get that I was talking about the time past 2008, right? You should better read if you join a discussion...
No i can´t enter your brain and look at discussions or words that never got typed in a post to me.

basti313 wrote:This is getting stupid...
Oh no it´s been stupid for a while now. We could have saved probably 3 posts if you did not try to make things as confusing as possible.
basti313 wrote:Button destroyed his front wing right at the beginning of the GP. That was why Hamilton was much faster than Button
Much faster i can understand but i doubt Button would have been faster even with a wing.
Hamilton was quite alot quicker in Q1 and Q2 which had rain as well.

basti313 wrote:Which comes down to two wins in 2008...all the other years Hamilton had very good or really poor performances in the rain.
What does that even mean? he had two wins in 08 then only bad and good races prior and after.

And on that note, i´m out, confuse someone else.

P.S. i hate this quote system with a passion.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

daveyrace
daveyrace
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Re: 2014 Australian Grand Prix - Melbourne 13-16th March

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A wet race you say...which driver is the best? :wink:
Lets be scientific about this :D
If it rains a professional would use an umbrella, right. Not a plastic bag or a magazine. because they are prepared and know how to handle these conditions. Those using these umbrellas more often would have a better grasp of rain management.
So...
If you consult google images a quick search of some random drivers names and umbrella's noting how many images there are of each of them holding umbrella's. Here I have collated them in order.

Lewis Hamilton =32
Sebastien Vettel=7
Kimi Raikkonen= 5
Jenson Button= 5 (one being a parasol so 4 really)
Fernando Alonso=3
Ayrton Senna=2
Felipe Massa=2
Nico Hulkenberg=2
Michael Schumacher=1
Damon Hill=1
Pastor Maldonado=0
David Coulthard=-1(a sunshade/parasol umbrella)
Taki Inoue= -10(a fire extinguisher)

From this we can see that Hamilton is 32 times better than Schumacher in the wet. 16 times better than Senna, 8 times better than Jenson who is confused a fifth of the time and 4.6 times better than Vettel.
What is surprising is that Kimi is slightly better than Jenson and Massa is just as good as Senna.
Coulthard knows what to do but prefers the sun.
Unsurprisingly Taki Inoue is rubbish in the wet.

Image
Lewis taking tips from Jenson on umbrella handling.

Anyway... On a more serious note, what are the tweaks to qualifying?
So for first practice they are hoping to allow teams to have more freedom/choice in testing if they are not using up their allocation of tyres for the qualifying/race?