Primordial Superbike Racing.

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Gatecrasher
Gatecrasher
4
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 04:54

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much :roll:

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Gatecrasher wrote:I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much :roll:

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.

Yeah, certainly, current superbikes are a performance bargain, (& aint nothing wrong with cheap thrills - IMO)..
- yet the showroom stock units - while fast, are actually fairly sanitised..
.. with various built in electronic limiters to restrict wheel stands, lock-ups due to brake & clutch, top speed, etc,
& would be hard put to beat a top G.P. bike - from 25 years ago - or more, really..

But in its day, a well ridden H2 could defeat its contemporary superbike rivals point to point,
- on winding roads, & around the race track too.. ..see below..

http://www.kawtriple.com/mraxl/articles ... bikes1.htm
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

Gatecrasher
Gatecrasher
4
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 04:54

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

J.A.W. wrote: Yeah, certainly, current superbikes are a performance bargain, (& aint nothing wrong with cheap thrills - IMO)..
- yet the showroom stock units - while fast, are actually fairly sanitised..
.. with various built in electronic limiters to restrict wheel stands, lock-ups due to brake & clutch, top speed, etc,
& would be hard put to beat a top G.P. bike - from 25 years ago - or more, really..
As with all bikes it is 90% rider and 10% bike, or less if it has me on it :lol: The biggest change that I have seen on the old bikes vs new have been due to the tires, it is incredible the grip that modern race rubber gives.

With a top class rider onboard doing a lap time run off with a 1990 Yamaha YZR500 against an 2015 R1M. Assuming you put modern race rubber on the YZR I still think the M could win it. I love the old two strokes and the lower weight but making up for 50 HP and the technology on the R1M that allows you to fully utilize it would be a tough.

I don't have anti-lock, anti-wheelie, launch control, traction control or any speed limiters on my current track bikes, if I did I would have a few less broken bones #-o If I do decide to upgrade to another bike I don't think I want 200hp without some of these options. I would not call any of these bikes sanitized, more "user friendly".

Great article by the way

Gatecrasher
Gatecrasher
4
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 04:54

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

After the last post I had to google it, did NOT expect to find this, not a race but still awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6M6mzoSiTI

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

True, a proper race-fettled Superbike of recent vintage could likely better an old G.P. 500 race speed-wise, G..

But a showroom standard roadbike.. nah.. no way..
Way back in `93, S.Ito was clocked at 200+mph on an NSR 500..
& production R1's are limited to ~186mph..
G.P. bikes are, & always have been dedicated race machines, not shopping carts..

Just check the number of riders who have been race winners on Superbikes - then G.P. bikes.. aint many..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

& in fact G, if you check the quickest laps recorded for a fast G.P. track - say Phillip Is..
..you will see that the current "Production Superbike" ( racebike, not roadbike ) record is..
'bout equal to the old 250cc two-stroke G.P. bike best lap..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Here is a Kevin Cameron CW article on the early US Superbikes..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/05/31/or ... ke-racing/

I note that even back in `77, the race speed of the Daytona winning Ducati Superbike..
.. was ~same as the best 250cc G.P. bike..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

A couple of interesting pix of the recently restored Warren Willing Chesterfield Superbike Series winning H2..
Scroll down a bit - on this site: http://www.halfofmylife.com/2015/03/25/oh-mr-sheene/

Steve McLaughlin picked up on Warren Willing's enthusiasm for this kind of racing, following a discussion
between the pair - when W.W. was racing stateside in the `70s - & as direct result..
.. AMA Superbike got started ( WSBK too) & are still with us..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

G, the following clip shows the British view of early "Superbike" racing.. but it was actually for dedicated race bikes,
..rather than modified showroom production bikes..
..it does include G.P. 500cc/F-750cc/F1-1000cc type bikes - all in together - though..

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q7ZrLzepSs
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

J.A.W. wrote:Here is a Kevin Cameron CW article on the early US Superbikes..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/05/31/or ... ke-racing/

I note that even back in `77, the race speed of the Daytona winning Ducati Superbike..
.. was ~same as the best 250cc G.P. bike..
If Kevin Cameron wrote an article about what he ate for breakfast it would be worth reading. Motorcycles are even better.

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Another American view of the origin of Superbike racing..

https://paulritterblog.wordpress.com/su ... ing-class/

& interestingly, Steve McLaughlin acknowledges the Aussie roots of the concept..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Gatecrasher wrote:I am just glad I survived my H2, it was great in a straight line, cornering and stopping not so much :roll:

Frightening that for $20k you can buy a bike now that straight off the factory floor is quicker than GP bikes from only a few years ago.
As a matter of interest G, I checked the lap records for Sydney Motorsport Park, a former Moto G.P. venue..
I note that the current ( 2015) Superbike - race bike - not showroom standard road bike - quickest lap is..
..'bout the same as the 20 year old 500cc G.P. lap record..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

FYI, Warren Willing, a man prominent in this thread, & as a rider/tuner/engineer in Bike racing up to G.P. level,
died recently after illness related to injuries received in his sporting career, vale - W.W..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Some cool early superbike pix here: http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/mrhpkawasaki75 ... 05811.html

.. shots of the late Warren Willing's 1975 Chesterfield Superbike Series winning H2, - as recently restored by his brother.

As a mark of how fast he got it going, Warren also won the `74 unlimited Grand Prix of NSW on it, against pukka G.P. bikes..

Edit; had to get that link to work..
Last edited by J.A.W. on 22 Feb 2016, 23:02, edited 1 time in total.
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).

J.A.W.
J.A.W.
109
Joined: 01 Sep 2014, 05:10
Location: Altair IV.

Re: Primordial Superbike Racing.

Post

Strad, that's too funny, " love affair...rose tinted" - surely such flowery/emotive terms are way over the top - for a technical forum..

That the largest capacity everyday sporting 2T motorcycle made - made its mark as a racer - is simply a matter of historical record.

Does seem a pity - that a current large capacity 2T equivalent - aint available in showrooms today, though..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"

Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).