Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
Vettel however collided with Raikkonen before Kvyat understeering away from the kerb. If kvyat understeered into Vettel, it would have been Kvyat's fault. That's not what happened however.giantfan10 wrote:Vettel said he did brake... secondly the line that Kvyat took was always going to have him end up way over to the left of the track a country mile away from the apex ,the true apex to that corner is in turn 2. Vettel was actually in the best position to make that apex and carry the best speed to turn 3.Go back and look at the normal line to that corner during the race and you will see that hugging the curbs into turn one ALWAYS ends up with understeer and a compromised turn 3. whats done is done and off to Russia.. hope we can finally have a normal start and race lolGoranF1 wrote:Thats right...Vettel left the gap,went wide,made a mistake and should of braked...100% his fault.
https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/ ... =519&h=383
And about raikkonen's swerving back onto inside line after running wide which was the actual reason for the collision?turbof1 wrote:Vettel however collided with Raikkonen before Kvyat understeering away from the kerb. If kvyat understeered into Vettel, it would have been Kvyat's fault. That's not what happened however.giantfan10 wrote:Vettel said he did brake... secondly the line that Kvyat took was always going to have him end up way over to the left of the track a country mile away from the apex ,the true apex to that corner is in turn 2. Vettel was actually in the best position to make that apex and carry the best speed to turn 3.Go back and look at the normal line to that corner during the race and you will see that hugging the curbs into turn one ALWAYS ends up with understeer and a compromised turn 3. whats done is done and off to Russia.. hope we can finally have a normal start and race lolGoranF1 wrote:Thats right...Vettel left the gap,went wide,made a mistake and should of braked...100% his fault.
https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/ ... =519&h=383
I would say it matters that one was done in the braking zone in to a corner, the other in the middle of a long corner and not in the braking zone. Also, one resulted in the driver not being control while the other, the driver was fully in control of his car all through the corner. I didn't see anything wrong with Kvyat's move, however Vettel was unfortunate that Raikkonen was also turning right to squeeze him unaware of the Red Bull there.Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
If i wanted to show determination i would pull out some videos showing Vettels over-agression on lap 1s, but i dont feel like it now.Juzh wrote:The determination is strong with this one.
The Mercs might not top the speed traps but they are rarely far away from the top of the speed traps. They are normally only about 1km/h down on the Williams or Force India. Perez was fastest at 334.5 and Nico was 333.6.ChrisDanger wrote:If you read Carroll Smith's Tune to Win one of the first thingss you'll learn is that if you want to go faster (top speed) you can either try and get more power from your engine, or you can make your vehicle more aerodynamically efficient. The problem is that you need a lot more power to go just a little bit faster, so it's really not even worth trying. Much better to work on aero. So top speed is much more a measure of drag than power. Evidence of this is that the Merc's hardly ever top the speed traps, while I've seen backmarkers high on the lists. And as a nod to aerodynamic efficiency, Red Bull, with Newey's input, are scoring podiums with an engine Renault themselves can't even score points with.carisi2k wrote:The Torro Rosso's are faster then the Renault and Honda powered cars is also how you can prove it. If the Honda and Renault were superior then how come both Torro Rosso's are still several KM/H faster then all 6 of those cars.FoxHound wrote:
And you can prove this?
The difference for you to understand is this.Martin_F wrote:Funny how everybody says Kvyat had the right to drive into the gap, yet Bottas got a penalty for doing exactly the same thing in Bahrain.
Or does it matter why you're driving into?
Hamilton mentioned that beside aero damage he also suspected some suspension damage. Which comes as no surprise after that whack.Just_a_fan wrote:The turning vane has been damaged. The top of the splitter has also been damaged. Indeed, it looks like the smooth cover has been ripped off totally. I bet the batwing suffered too. I'm amazed he had enough aero left to get to 7th!siskue2005 wrote:http://cdn-7.motorsport.com/static/img/ ... detail.jpgVasconia wrote:What sort of damage? I thought the front wing had been changed...
No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
What you need to realize is that it doesn't matter that Kyvat put his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn. There was a gap and the RB12 could exploit the gap. He never ran wide or hit anybody and Sebastian did. Sebastian was suprised that Kyvat was there but that isn't Kyvat's fault. It was good racing by Kyvat taking advantage of the Ferrari's running wide into the first corner.dans79 wrote:No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU
Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ
If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.
dans79 wrote:No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU
Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ
If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.
I just watched this video and there are several things noticeable to my eyes.hemichromis wrote:dans79 wrote:No, I believe the difference that you and several others here need to understand, is that Kyvat rammed his nose up the inside of a decreasing radius turn.carisi2k wrote:
The difference for you to understand is this.
1. There was no gap for Bottas to drive into at Bahrain. The gap was imaginary and he just ran into Lewis and that was why he got a penalty.
2. Kyvat never hit anybody to be penalized. His pass was clean and it was Vettel who did all the hitting. The gap was real and Kyvat took advantage of it.
Watch Alonso here in the on-board. He kisses the first apex, drifts out, and then back in to kiss the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWssZV_tZHU
Now watch Kyvat, he's carying so much extra speed he is a car width+ off the second apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgsBsM7PhRQ
If Vettel and Kimi had kept their lines, Kyvat would have side swiped Vettel.
Why not look at what Kvyat ACTUALLY did rather than how a driver would normally go around a corner?
https://www.formula1.com/content/fom-we ... urn_1.html
Watch how Kvyat maintains the tight line until Raikonnen hits him there is no drifting out at all!