Another reason to suggest Max Mosely should quit?

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Should Max Mosely retire

Yes, he should have gone years ago
26
84%
No, he maybe crazy but does a good job
5
16%
 
Total votes: 31

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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manchild wrote:He warns that Hamilton's success will be bad for F1 and yet he has no problem in fact that Bahrain authorities and GP organizers prohibit F1 team member who are citizens of Israel to enter their land and participate in GP. That is not a made up story but a fact. There was a team or two whose members couldn't attend Bahrain GP. As a president of FIA he should have cancel Bahrain GP unless they allow every team member regardless on race, religion or nationality to participate in it. He didn't even raised his voice against that.
I won't bother quoting

Mosley's exact words in that BBC HardTalk interview, you can look it up yourself. The way I understood it was that after Schumacher had proven himself to be very successful and talented, there was a steady stream of people coming to Mosley (and various other FIA officials) with suggestions that were rather obviously designed to slow Schumacher down, or give other competitors a better chance. I guess the change in the points system can be viewed as one such development that actually got accepted.

This kind of thing obviously being a negative development (compared to others just rising up to the challenge), Mosley then went on to say that chances are, if Hamilton keeps up his level of performance, that he will see that bit of history repeating. In effect, in my opinion he stopped just short of directly comparing Hamilton with Schumacher in very favourable terms, as far as talent and ability is concerned. Certainly it didn't come over as Mosley thinking that Hamilton is unworthy of being, or winning, in F1. Yes, there were ambiguities in his statement; it will be very hard to put the words in any racial context, because it didn't come into play much. I believe the interviewer referred to something like that (a slightly lame Tiger Woods comparison?) at some point, but can't remember anything sinificant or noteworthy coming out of it.

Mosley has a past, yes. I believe he was something like 19 - 21 years old at the time of the last of the events you keep bringing up. Would I like Mosley to come out with a statement that he strongly supports a multicultural and a multiracial F1? Yes, unequivocally yes. Perhaps we could ask him to head an FIA program against racism, religious bias and chauvinism. It'd possibly mean more, coming from a person with his family history than coming from a person such as myself, not having had to have a change of heart or having had to renounce the values of my parents to arrive at such a conclusion. I wonder if Mosley was confronted with his history at the time he was elected as FIA president?

(Btw, as to Jean-Marie Balestre, his (as always, utterly trustworthy :P ) Wikipedia profile states that unverifiably he had been a French Resistance fighter during WWII. That's a bit at odds with being a Wermacht/SS collaborator, but stranger things happened during the war. A book came out a short while ago, the "Grand Prix Saboteurs", about drivers going about doing secret missions during the war ... the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction. Doesn't even Flavio claim to have been in the Foreign Legion, while others claim he was a ski instructor in the Alps?

As to Jean Todt, I'm not familiar with how widespread that surname is in Europe. Jean has some Polish roots, but he can't be directly related to Fritz Todt, though, as he was killed in a plane crash (in '42?) and Jean was born years later, after the war I think. Personally, I'm starting to think that you're just pulling our leg with these suggestions, Manchild, but if you've got the energy, I'm sure we'd all be interested to see you come up with undisputable historical facts. Especially after offering such insinuations, don't you feel you have some responsibility in this matter, especially if you've been wrong?)


As to the Bahrain incident, it was good that you pointed it out. I didn't know it happened and would've liked to have heard from the Bahraini authorities as to what, if any, justifications they had in blocking Israeli citizens from entering their country. The FIA should make these incidents public, as I think it's forbidden for any F1 host country to use the sport as a political platform. (I'm sure you remember the trouble with the Turkish Cypriot leader presenting a trophy at a Turkish GP? An infringement worth $5M, I think, and they risked losing their GP.)

There was actually a rather similar occurrence at this year's USGP. Team BMW Sauber had to replace one of their race engineers (a very senior position) with the head of their test team engineers, because the race engineer couldn't get a visa to enter the country. Why? He's originally Iranian. Surely such bias, and especially protecting F1's and the FIA's interests in justly challenging such dubious practices, is very difficult. But no-one ever said that the job of being the president of the FIA should or could be easy.

I'd like to see Mosley take on such challenges. I'm sure there's quite a lot on his plate as we write, but there's nothing to stop anyone from contacting his office - in any capacity you may have - and very publicly requesting him, or his organisation, to address any wrong you might perceive the FIA should act on. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be seen taking half measures when it comes to human rights and such.
Last edited by checkered on 16 Nov 2007, 17:19, edited 1 time in total.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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First of all thanks for the quality of your reply. That's very rare thing I get in this thread.

BaleSStre claims that he worked undercover for the resistance but except him no one ever confirmed that while him being in Waffen SS is a fact.
http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=77 wrote:In July 1943, 30 young NSKK, lead by Jean-Marie Balestre, desert and join the Waffen SS. All, NSKK and Waffen SS will fight till the end in their units. Their complete history is still to be written.
Perhaps he considers singing Lili Marelne in French as undercover work for the resistance? That must have demoralized them completely and secured victory of Allies. :lol:

I was only joking about Todt (but one can never be certain :lol: )

Regarding the rest... Ever heard of converted racist and fascist? Me never.

AeroGT3
AeroGT3
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 23:22

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bizadfar wrote:"That's for "fast and furious" teen forums"

You didn't say anything about that. Never taken a track day MC? Shame..
Go figure :roll:
manchild wrote:First of all thanks for the quality of your reply. That's very rare thing I get in this thread.
So the only quality reply is one in which full agreement with your posts is stated? That sounds . . . facist!
Except explaining what you don't like about me and my opinion you haven't wrote a word to deny my opinion by some facts, links, quotations etc. You just don't like my opinion but don't have anything to back up yours.
Have you posted any facts to refute my statement that you post irrelevant Nazi rubbish in random threads?

Was your comment about my track days "facts, links or quotations?"

Have you considered applying your standards of conduct to yourself?

You seem to fail to grasp the concept that we aren't refuting Max's parents' political views. We simply don't care. We're actually tired of hearing about it. Someone posted a thread about a new nosecone idea in the aerodynamics thread. That resulted in a rant from you about the FIA's corruption and Nazism. You take a comment about a driver being TOO dominant (a huge compliment IMO) and turn it into a race issue. Anytime anything bad happens its Ferrari's fault.

Do you see the pattern?

F1technical: how's the weather?
Manchild: MAX IS A NAZI. THE FIA ARE BASTARDS. MICHEAL SCHUMACHER IS A MURDER. FERRARI ARE TERRORISTS.

:roll: It's getting really, really, old.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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zac510 wrote:Gotta laugh at that: a 'rare, quality reply' is one that doesn't question manchild's methods or opinions!
AeroGT3 wrote:So the only quality reply is one in which full agreement with your posts is stated? That sounds . . . facist!
:-k

If you think I

"didn't question" manchild's methods or opinions, or was "in full agreement with" his posts then read again. I thought I was just being civil while giving my opinion. Engaging in a conversation. Everyone does as she/he sees fit. It's an open environment. We're all responsible as to where these discussions go. Not me, not you, not manchild. All. We know he's contributed other things besides his latest theme of choice, things of undisputable value. At least we should know that. He has discussed technical things, unrelated issues, created graphics and avatars for this very site. Who else has done that, who?
AeroGT3 wrote:Someone posted a thread about a new nosecone idea in the aerodynamics thread.
Someone already tried to point out that the nosecone suggestion was manchild's, and the nosecone thread was also, quite logically, started by manchild. Look it up.

Just pointing out the facts, guys and gals. Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll understand.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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*This is not reply on checkered's post*

I've wrote and quoted in at least half of dozen of posts in this thread that not his mom, aunt, uncle and dad is that I'm talking about but about his own political career as a fascist and a racist. Some people are missing that out every time constantly imposing that they don't care about his dad and mom.

He was the one, yes, he, personally, one and only, himself who wrote all over London K.B.W graffiti during Keep Britain White political campaign of his fathers party.

Missed it again? After 3 pages in this topic?

No problem, I'll repeat. He was the one, yes, he, personally, one and only, himself who wrote all over London K.B.W graffiti during Keep Britain White political campaign of his father's party.

Do I need to repeat?

You still don't care?

Is that so?

Go than and shine your own jackboots and practice "Sieg Heil" in front of the mirror. Those who have no problem with or don't care about racists and fascists are the same and that's not the kind of people I'll discuss any further!

zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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Show us some evidence of it in the last 20 years..

AeroGT3
AeroGT3
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 23:22

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checkered wrote:Someone already tried to point out that the nosecone suggestion was manchild's, and the nosecone thread was also, quite logically, started by manchild. Look it up.

Just pointing out the facts, guys and gals. Nothing personal, I'm sure you'll understand.
Yes, it was a thread started by Manchild. But that doesn't change the fact that he brought discussion about racism and Nazism into the AERODYNAMICS forum.

Are you saying that if I start a thread with the title being applicable to general F1, I can then after the first post turn it into any irrelevant BS I chose?

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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To sum it up. This topic is about MoSSley, right? I'm talking about him, analyzing his ability to impartially govern F1 trough the known historical facts about his political career. Fascism and racism were the essence of political ideas he promoted while he was in the politics.

In every organization, institution or a company candidate's background is being check to see if he is suitable for the position in question. If a person was politically active as a fascist and a racist than by the nature of F1 as multi-racial sport such person is not suitable to govern it at all. He simply can't be trusted. As simple as that.

Therefore, it is not my fault that I'm bringing it up. If someone can't take the truth that doesn't mean that I'm ranting. I'm talking about viewpoints and public work of person whose name is in title topic. So, am I off topic or just happen to get some people pissed because they don't share my opinion and have nothing to back up theirs?
Last edited by manchild on 19 Nov 2007, 02:41, edited 1 time in total.

modbaraban
modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

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I wouldn't bother studying Mosley's political past as long as in his present practice there are already more than enough reasons for him to quit FIA asap. I'd suggest you manchild switching into a construcive/positive/creative mode, please. Maybe you can figure out how to get rid of Mad Max? F1T (and the world) would be so grateful! :)

AeroGT3
AeroGT3
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 23:22

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Manchild, you're failing to grasp the points I'm making on a fundamental level.

This isn't rage that the "truth is coming out" nor is it ignorance or even disagreement with your opinion.

I'm not denying Mossley has racist views. I am well aware he's racist, and was well aware before ever coming here and before ever reading your posts. His activity in the 60's and 70's is PUBLIC RECORD and you were NOT the first person to read about it or figure it out.

Personally I think he's racist, has done bad things for the sport, has pushed for ridiculous rules changes, and is in a general idiot.

My issue is with you CONSTANTLY bringing up this point and constantly talking about it. Constantly talking about Ferrari being responsible for every problem with the sport. Constantly taking perfectly good conversations and dialogues and ruining them with posts like this:
F1 is in clinical death - Mclaren, Renault... who's next to be eliminated for the sake of the red team, BMW, Williams? Just wait and see what will happen in 2008. The dirtiest ever team "won" both championships and two of most honorable teams are being described by FIA F1 in history books as the dirtiest ones.

That's just pile of shoot and new generations will have no idea what really happened in F1 because the stories they'll hear from their fathers and uncles will not match official statistics and glorifications. F1 is currently the most corrupted sport on earth and in that way it is the least sport of all.
FYI everyone, this post came from a topic on NOSECONES in a forum about AERODYNAMICS. That's trolling, hijacking, and pollution all in one.

You talk about personal insults and evidence but you've been the one present no evidence against my claims and instead post insults about me driving my car on a RACETRACK. And BTW, my claims are NOT that Mosley is a saint or that he isn't racist. It's that you bring this up far too frequently.

For a technical forum, you post WAY too much politically motivated content and way too much conspiracy theories.

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Steven
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Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

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Guys,

I'm closing this as obviously there was enough time to make clear what everyone thinks about this. No use in ranting about this on and on is there? ;)

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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EDIT: I was writing a reply in the time Tomba posted his. When I submitted it was already there. Sorry.

EDIT by Tomba: No point in leaving this here. I removed several posts from this thread that have NOTHING to do with F1 or any motorsport at all.

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Steven
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Joined: 19 Aug 2002, 18:32
Location: Belgium

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Allright, finito ;)