Mercedes Power Unit

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
ringo
197
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by ringo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:52 pm

Ive seen articles saying the MGUH in the project one is 120kw. I expect this may be the same or better in the race car.
For Sure!!

Juzh
196
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by Juzh » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:07 pm

ringo wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:52 pm
Ive seen articles saying the MGUH in the project one is 120kw. I expect this may be the same or better in the race car.
It's not, and it's also not 120 kw in the road car. Article immediately makes itself look silly by saying merc ice generates 700 bhp which is known to be at least 100 bhp off. Anything written after that should not be taken seriously.

If anything 107 bhp generated by the mgu-h is consistent with the released document about energy deployment a while ago.

ringo
197
User avatar
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by ringo » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 am

Yeah it's 90kw in the car from this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtPuCObRAbY

but for the F1 car i believe the MGUH can harvest 120kW or more. Thermodynamically about 240hp can be generated.
For Sure!!

wuzak
293
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:38 am

dren wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:30 pm
gruntguru wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:20 am
dren wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:55 pm
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/merced ... -info-news

This is claiming the MGUH on the F1 PU is generating 107hp. I haven't seen that figure anywhere else. It also gives some more specifics into the Mercedes PU. I don't know how much is real or gleaned information, though.
"the MGU­-H develops 107 horsepower" - it doesn't say if that is in "motoring" or "generating" mode.
Would it need to motor at 107hp to turn a compressor...?
Depends on how fast you wish to accelerate the compressor and its mass moment of inertia.

Also, at full boost pressure and flow I believe the compressor requires more than 107hp to drive it. Gruntguru made some basic calcs on the matter a while ago IIRC.

gruntguru
338
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by gruntguru » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:41 am

Ballpark compressor drive power is 100 kW @ 4 bar abs, 70 kW @ 3 bar abs.
je suis charlie

wuzak
293
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:47 am

gruntguru wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:41 am
Ballpark compressor drive power is 100 kW @ 4 bar abs, 70 kW @ 3 bar abs.
That's constant speed?

gruntguru
338
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:43 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by gruntguru » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:25 am

Yep. No idea of inertia or acceleration. I would assume that acceleration of the compressor is "as fast as possible" although the MGUH would normally motor the compressor during part load operation so that full boost is available immediately the throttles are opened.
je suis charlie

wuzak
293
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by wuzak » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:07 pm

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13177 ... yno-target

50% achieved on the dyno.

That's around 830hp from 1240kW for fuel flow (from Andy Cowell a year or so ago).

Around 990hp all up.

dren
164
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by dren » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:17 pm

Pretty damn impressive. So they are nipping right at the 1000hp mark.
Honda!

hemichromis
20
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:00 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by hemichromis » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:19 pm

Oh great! The Mercedes power unit keeps getting better and better!

Tommy Cookers
376
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by Tommy Cookers » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:57 pm

[quote=wuzak post]
50% achieved on the dyno.
That's around 830hp from 1240kW for fuel flow (from Andy Cowell a year or so ago).
Around 990hp all up.[/quote]

actually 830 hp from combined fuel burn and whatever in-cylinder oil burn
so maybe less than 50% bte ?

plus oil burn ex-cylinder increasing turbine power

btw 1 - please remind me is this (crankshaft + sustained MU-K) = 830 hp or (830 hp crankshaft + sustained MU-K) = 990 hp ?
btw 2 - and the power but not the efficiency will improve with any increase in the fuel kg-heat value

rgava
6
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:15 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by rgava » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:36 pm

If we take the numbers on the article, 44->50% bte means 109 bhp for a 6% increase.
So that's 908 bhp for the 50% bte number

Blaze1
38
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by Blaze1 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:22 pm

So if the V6Ts were to run at V10 fuel flows, you'd be looking at over 1600bhp! :shock: :o

dmjunqueira
27
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:55 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by dmjunqueira » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:37 pm

Mercedes confirming that they achieved a conversion efficiency of more than 50% during dyno testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGDJqTDXgtg

Also the video shows the 2017 power unit in remarkable detail...

Mudflap
35
User avatar
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 pm

Re: Mercedes Power Unit

Post by Mudflap » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:26 pm

The plaques on the 2016 engines exhibited throughout the Brixworth plant state '>875 PS'.
Can't make much of it really.
Si vis pacem volve velox