2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

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dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm

They are dubbed manufacturers because they make the PU along with their chassis.
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HondaRaceReplica
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by HondaRaceReplica » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:44 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:24 pm
They are dubbed manufacturers because they make the PU along with their chassis.
I just said that.....my question is if RBR can provide spec suspension parts to STR HONDA since in this case Honda produces only the PU.....

dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:47 pm

I don't see why not. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking; I'm using my phone today.
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Squid
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by Squid » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:54 pm

  • Survival cell (with the exception of a closing panel for the purpose of accessing the ES)
  • Front impact structure
  • Roll structures
  • Bodywork (with the exception of airboxes, engine exhausts and any prescribed bodywork geometries)
These are the listed parts. They can be designed and manufactured by outside contractors, although there are a bunch of additional rules, most important of which being that the parts must be designed and manufactured exclusively for that competitor, and the contractor must not be a competitor themselves.

Everything else can be bought ready from a supplier, which means RBR can indeed provide the suspension to STR.

HondaRaceReplica
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by HondaRaceReplica » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Then STR Honda needs to basically build a hybrid with as many suspension and other spec parts from RBR and it’s outside suppliers as possible with Honda providing the PU and STR taking care of the rest so they can replicate the RB14 to perform and gather data as much as possible for 2019

dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:45 pm

TR makes their own gearboxes and thus rear suspension components. All RB needs to know is how well the Honda PU performs towards the end of the year.
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HondaRaceReplica
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by HondaRaceReplica » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:06 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:45 pm
TR makes their own gearboxes and thus rear suspension components. All RB needs to know is how well the Honda PU performs towards the end of the year.
That is not my point....My point is maybe they shouldn’t as it hasn’t worked out that well for them has it.....The goal is to build the best car possible...Everyone should contribute their strengths..Honda the PU...RBR the chassis...STR everything else and overseeing.....

dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 pm

TR is not RBR. TR is primarily used as advertising and a testbed for RB potential drivers. They make their own chassis. They just have to purchase a PU. What you are suggesting is not what TR is and not within the regulations.
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HPD
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by HPD » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:24 pm

Yes, TR remains an independent team. They build the 100% car in Faenza.

We do not know what kind of help RB will give to TR.
I proposed the idea of buying the suspension, but TR has the ability to build his own.

I think the help of RB to TR has something to do with the AVL to improve the chassis / engine integration

amho
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by amho » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm

I wish STR had at least one experienced driver, Gasly and Hartley came very late to f1 and they can't give reliable feedback.

HondaRaceReplica
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by HondaRaceReplica » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:15 pm

dren wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 pm
TR is not RBR. TR is primarily used as advertising and a testbed for RB potential drivers. They make their own chassis. They just have to purchase a PU. What you are suggesting is not what TR is and not within the regulations.
Then maybe Honda should go “all in” and purchase RBR like Porsche was rumored of doing...Then we can keep STR as the junior team to develop drivers and double the data and feedback....And please don’t say it’s not realistic....Mercedes did it with Brawn and Ilmor and look how that has worked out for them....Honda already is on their way to making a potent PU...We need however to have a top rate chassis or it will end up being a repeat of the BAR Honda days..... :(

marmer
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by marmer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:14 pm

amho wrote:I wish STR had at least one experienced driver, Gasly and Hartley came very late to f1 and they can't give reliable feedback.
Hartley seemed to be giving great feedback in all his practice sessions more than anything his car let him down in the races so much so we never saw his true pace i feel. Too soon to judge him give him a winter and then see how he does in Australia

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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 am

I suspect Red Bull has given Honda full command in developing their engine above other demands of the torro rosso chassis in order to feel out how suitable the engine is for 2019.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by godlameroso » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:19 am

HondaRaceReplica wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:15 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:02 pm
TR is not RBR. TR is primarily used as advertising and a testbed for RB potential drivers. They make their own chassis. They just have to purchase a PU. What you are suggesting is not what TR is and not within the regulations.
Then maybe Honda should go “all in” and purchase RBR like Porsche was rumored of doing...Then we can keep STR as the junior team to develop drivers and double the data and feedback....And please don’t say it’s not realistic....Mercedes did it with Brawn and Ilmor and look how that has worked out for them....Honda already is on their way to making a potent PU...We need however to have a top rate chassis or it will end up being a repeat of the BAR Honda days..... :(
Won't happen, Red Bull will likely be asking more than Honda is willing to spend to buy the team, but TR, that's more reasonable. Don't forget they have very good people, and their major weakness is simply a lack of resources. I have no doubt that the people there can build a very good chassis if they have the resources to put mind to matter. The TR had one upgrade for Malaysia that didn't really work, and the car was no longer developed, but the car started the year with decent pace. If it wasn't for reliability it was a solid mid-field contender, with Sainz getting 4th in Singapore.

If Toro Rosso has enough budget for the chassis, they can make something very decent, as good as Renault at the very least.
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dren
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Re: 2018 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Honda

Post by dren » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:21 pm

If the Honda PU is reliable in testing and at the start of the year, the TR should be a solid midfield package. The Honda should have a nice power bump relative to the competition; still the least powerful, but by less of a margin. The TR will benefit from having its first works relationship with a PU manufacturer. It'll be down to what the drivers can do with it. Hartley I expect to do fine, not sure about Gasly yet. If he doesn't perform come mid season, I bet we see him get swapped out.
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