Silly Season 2017/2018

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Fulcrum
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by Fulcrum » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:34 am

Fulcrum wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:35 am
Hmmm...

Mercedes

I don't think any changes are going to materialise here. Hamilton will win the Driver's Championship relatively comfortably, meaning with less internal pressure from his teammate; Mercedes will win the Constructor's Championship. Bottas will do enough to justify a seat without causing much aggravation, Hamilton stays for another year.

Ferrari

Vettel stays, Raikkonen departs for retirement, possibly Williams or McLaren. Daniel Ricciardo or Fernando Alonso sign for 2018.

Red Bull

Verstappen and Ricciardo, if Ricciardo stays. Alternatively, Carlos Sainz.

Williams

Massa strolls into the sunset. His seat is taken by Raikkonen - Daddy Stroll paying for that. Alternatively, Wehrlein or Ocon are brought in after some coercion from Mercedes. Alternatively, Massa sticks around for another year!

McLaren

Vandoorne and Alonso, if he decides to stick around. If Alonso goes, they're going to be scrambling for someone. Possible options would be extremely slim under the circumstances necessary to make Alonso leave. Raikkonen, maybe Grosjean. They also have potential boomerang employees in Perez and Magnussen, but I'd imagine Raikkonen would be the premium boomerang.

Force India

Perez and Ocon are likely to remain here, but Ocon could be headhunted by several teams. If he moves, Wehrlein, or another promising rookie will take his place.

Renault

Hulkenberg and Ocon - Ocon is French, he is quick, Renault would appreciate a French driver. Jolyon simply isn't good enough to keep that seat.

Toro Rosso

If Sainz moves up to the 'A' team, Kvyat may be retained. However, I think it highly likely he is jettisoned as well, and Toro Rosso will have a completely new line-up next year.

Sauber

Anyone that can pay lots of money.

Haas

Grosjean and ? Probably Magnussen, maybe Giovinazzi is brought in here?

I reckon there could be as many as 4 rookies on the grid next year. 2 places in Toro Rosso, possible places in Sauber, Force India, Haas, maybe even Renault.

Of those, Pierre Gasly looks a certainty for the Toro Rosso team. Charles Leclerc, if he performs in GP2, will have a strong chance of entering F1 via Haas or Sauber.

Other possible decent options include Luca Ghiotto, Oliver Rowland, Nyck de Vries and Alexander Albon.
Not too far out it seems.

Schuttelberg
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by Schuttelberg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am

It's painful to see what's become of Williams. A seat the likes of Prost and Senna squabbled over is now occupied by anything but WDC.
"The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is stimulated by passion and internal will."
"HONESTLY!"
Sebastian Vettel

Webber2011
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by Webber2011 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:53 am

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am
It's painful to see what's become of Williams. A seat the likes of Prost and Senna squabbled over is now occupied by anything but WDC.
Yes, that pains me as well

The very first F1 races I watched were with my Dad way back in 1978
Williams were on the up, and an Aussie had joined.
1980 delivered my dream, and I must say was what drove my addiction to F1 :)
Then to see them battle again for the Championship many times over the years made them without doubt my favourite Team.
But the last decade has been sad to watch :cry:

djos
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by djos » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:34 am

Yeah same, I grew up watching F1 in the late 80's and was so excited when Webber signed for them and had to watch them slide down the grid instead of run at the front.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Schuttelberg
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by Schuttelberg » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:47 am

Webber2011 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:53 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am
It's painful to see what's become of Williams. A seat the likes of Prost and Senna squabbled over is now occupied by anything but WDC.
Yes, that pains me as well

The very first F1 races I watched were with my Dad way back in 1978
Williams were on the up, and an Aussie had joined.
1980 delivered my dream, and I must say was what drove my addiction to F1 :)
Then to see them battle again for the Championship many times over the years made them without doubt my favourite Team.
But the last decade has been sad to watch :cry:
I understand where you're coming from. I only began in 1994 and although I was never their 'fan' because of my loyalties to Schumacher I have an enormous respect for them and McLaren. I really do feel Williams need to invest in youth. They keep trying the recycled drivers or the paying lot. Clearly, the human element is missing in the team. I for one find Claire Williams extremely bland and unambitious.
"The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is stimulated by passion and internal will."
"HONESTLY!"
Sebastian Vettel

iotar__
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by iotar__ » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am
It's painful to see what's become of Williams. A seat the likes of Prost and Senna squabbled over is now occupied by anything but WDC.
- It's 1000 times more painful to watch what's become of Ferrari. Williams is a midfield team with no budget; Ferrari a top one and one of 2 (now 3) full manufacturers with all the marketing, engine, budget advantages that has been turned into a cheap marketing exercise.

- Their cars occupied by two drivers that guarantee they lose before the seasons begin and with no incentives for sporting achievements. They keep the seats regardless.
- WIlliams might be forced to make some decisions, Marchionne makes them willingly. When it happens at Williams (Stroll) the midfield is even duller, when Ferrari does it together with Merc the whole seasons are wasted.

- No amount of name dropping from the past can distract from the fact that one half of the reason to keep Raikkonen is to make Vettel look good when he doesn't perform well at all and thus justify wasting 30+ million on him. The other half is inexplicable to me marketing side. Winning anything, speed, quality driving: as meaningless as past titles.

adrianjordan
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by adrianjordan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:09 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:47 am
Webber2011 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:53 am
Schuttelberg wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 am
It's painful to see what's become of Williams. A seat the likes of Prost and Senna squabbled over is now occupied by anything but WDC.
Yes, that pains me as well

The very first F1 races I watched were with my Dad way back in 1978
Williams were on the up, and an Aussie had joined.
1980 delivered my dream, and I must say was what drove my addiction to F1 :)
Then to see them battle again for the Championship many times over the years made them without doubt my favourite Team.
But the last decade has been sad to watch :cry:
I understand where you're coming from. I only began in 1994 and although I was never their 'fan' because of my loyalties to Schumacher I have an enormous respect for them and McLaren. I really do feel Williams need to invest in youth. They keep trying the recycled drivers or the paying lot. Clearly, the human element is missing in the team. I for one find Claire Williams extremely bland and unambitious.
Have to say I agree about Claire Williams. Found her really dull in the Williams documentary on Netflix.
In 2007 I had the chance to go to a meet-and-greet with an F1 test driver. I decided not to as I didn't think he'd even amount to much...he was the BMW Sauber test driver and his name was Sebastian Vettel...

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:28 pm

Seems the fire is missing from Williams.

Nowadays, Williams reminds me of a bus-stop where a couple of old people sitting and waiting for the bus to arrive which will never come because they won't face the fact the route has changed. Then a young gun pops up and everybody is excited untill they too learn they were unwise following 'wiser experienced' older people and found out they've wasted precious time for something that isn't gonna happen because nobody is willing to move.
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

dren
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by dren » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:49 pm

Manoah2u wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:28 pm
Seems the fire is missing from Williams.

Nowadays, Williams reminds me of a bus-stop where a couple of old people sitting and waiting for the bus to arrive which will never come because they won't face the fact the route has changed. Then a young gun pops up and everybody is excited untill they too learn they were unwise following 'wiser experienced' older people and found out they've wasted precious time for something that isn't gonna happen because nobody is willing to move.
Almost poetic. Maybe Kubica will inject a little bit of promise if he is signed.
Honda!

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 am

Williams were just trying to survive for the time, no fire no daring. Paddy is back in the frame now so that should change for the better. Nice start with going after Kubica though i doubt Kubica will be quick enough. Might be Wehrlein in the seat.
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

RedNEO
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by RedNEO » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:06 am

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:01 am
Williams were just trying to survive for the time, no fire no daring. Paddy is back in the frame now so that should change for the better. Nice start with going after Kubica though i doubt Kubica will be quick enough. Might be Wehrlein in the seat.
Wehrlein has not been in the running for some time. It’s looking like they chose Sirotkin. He was the stand out performer at the Abu Dhabi test for the team.

PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by PlatinumZealot » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:13 am

Oh. Russian money put on the table in repsonse to Kvyat losing his seat? Makes sense. World cup 2018 is in Russia by the way.
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

RedNEO
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by RedNEO » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:23 am

No doubt Russia wanted to make sure of that because Kvyat also managed to find backing . Williams got a good deal, Sirotkin brings money and he’s fast.

netoperek
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by netoperek » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:36 am

When both of them had free hand in setups (Valencia), Sirotkin has been slower. Good article by Mark Hughes: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ns-answers

In a nutshell, Kubica has been faster than Massa, Sirotkin sped up and edged RK on setup Kubica suggested, but never got to drive on 2018 Ultra in race trim. Only fast laps Kubica got, were on less powered PU and hypersofts, which overheated on sector 1 alone. He has not recorded a single clean lap, as combined purple sector times would translate into much better laptime.
That's why Paddy said that "speed is complicated"

dren
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Re: Silly Season 2017/2018

Post by dren » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:39 pm

If that's the case, it'll be sad if Kubica doesn't get the drive.
Honda!