2018 British Grand Prix, Silverstone, July 6-8

[Brenton]

"Feels like you're driving with an F2 engine versus an F1 engine" - post race interview with Verstappen. Horner repeatedly this weekend kept saying that their PU is far behind Mercedes and Ferrari, when not even being asked about it. He even gave evidence in his argument, saying to look at how little rear wing their cars had this weekend. Really letting loose now that they're switching to Honda.

Yet a headline from a couple weeks ago said that Toto said that Renault engine is nearly even with Ferrari and Mercedes?

(I don't know where to post about the Renault PU performance, because AFAIK the PU thread is for technical discussion only, not general discussion about the PU performance?)

[Nonserviam85]

Anyone else notice the red lights seemed to go out quicker than normal. I normally watch the all the lights come on, count to 4 then they go off, this race seemed more like 2.

Not saying its anything underhand [or a contributary factor] as the drivers should all be ready, just an observation...

Thought the Hulk had a solid race.

It’s a random algorithm that dictates the timing. This was implemented some years ago to avoid any clever tricks from the teams to get consistent perfect starts.

[MMMMMMMM]

To me it is as simple as Red Bull dropping the ball on the 2018 car and championship and deploying all resources to work on the 2019 car. They can’t lose 3rd in the constructors, so they can afford doing that. Trashing Renault is just an extra bonus for them and I read it as a sign of frustration and acknowledgent from their side that they can’t compete with the top two teams.
I believe RBR know well enough that they are in a similar position to McLaren last year, putting the blame on their partner, but being well aware the gap to the front runners is not only due to their engine partner. Red Bull’s chasis is a top chassis, but the lesser of the top three chassis. Sure we can debate as much as we did on the McLaren chassis last year, but in the end there will be a moment of truth. It’s inevitable and it’s coming.

[darkpino]

The only time that moment of truth is coming you talk about is when RBR gets either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine for two seasons. Until then it will be speculating at how good that RBR chassis is. But seeing how much they make up at tracks where PU power is irrelevant (or more irrelevant) and knowing that Newey is designing the car (who is well known for creating pretty quick cars) I think the chassis is at least really close to the Mercedes and Ferrari chassis

Edit: also the fact that RBR was more than a second quicker in Q then the seconds quickest Renault team says a lot also imo.

[giantfan10]

Q: (Christian Menath – MotorsportMagazin.com) Seb, you said the Safety Car spiced it up a bit, but don’t you think it helped you a bit because it seemed like you had more problems with the tyres in the first stint and in the second stint Valtteri came a bit later and would have probably been able to push you a bit more?

SV: No, I disagree. I think in the first stint it was crucial to open the gap, which we did. And then in the end, I think Valtteri’s tyres were a little bit in better shape but in the second stint we were largely controlling and I think it would have been fine until the end.

very very interesting comment from Kimi:
KR: "Every time we got close to them(red bull) or behind them it seems to be very difficult to follow them, seems to be just different than any other car"
"I think the Mercedes was somehow more easy to follow. Must less effect on my car. We got a pretty decent run out of Three every lap, got the momentum and managed to pass."

[RZS10]

The 2 seconds resulted from the safety cars and I don't think he would have gotten second without them.

It's fair to assume he would have been third:

The two drivers in front of him pitted on laps 13 (Kimi) and 17 (Max), RIC had already stopped because RBR anticipated a stop by Kimi.

Before the SC he closed the gap to Kimi from 11.3s to 5s in 5 laps (-6.3) and to Max from 14.9s to 7.7s in the same 5 laps (-7.2).

Kimi had 12 lap older tyres and Max ended up with a DNF - He would have been P3 at the end of the race without the SC.

[roon]

At 1:27 you can see Kimi flatspot the right front and understeer into Lewis. Cool shot of Ricciardo's rear tires scuffing up at 3:04. Pretty intense sequence with the Renault and Haas at 4:50.

[Mandrake]

Congrats to Ferrari and Vettel, they were flawless today.

But if Hamilton can fall back to last and still finish two seconds behind Vettel, I think that proves the only thing wrong at Mercedes is their strategy. When they were miles ahead of the rest it didn't matter, but with Ferrari this competitive they really need to bring their A-game every time.

Oh, and did Verstappen crash today?

You must remember we had two safety cars bunching up the field and the use of high power settings on the PU side plus the fact that their car works very well around this track. That all contributed greatly to his come back.

I just hope this season continues to be close. Today was an absolute cracker. This season seems to produce a few of those with, admittedly, some dull ones in between to keep us watching.

MAMBA

It was a very good race to watch indeed. However, one the became very evident again: the gap between the top cars and the rest of the field. In France and here, a fast car falling behind is cutting through the field like a hot knife through butter. And the 3 DRS zones might help in fights for positions but boy, do they help the top cars to come back.

It's effectively a 2-tier show now with Merc and Ferrari + RB mostly in the mix. Then big gap and whoever comes next. Makes Engine penalties etc. look a lot less scary for the top teams as well. Take it at Spa or Monza and just drive by the other cars while starting from behind. A single Safety car and you're in for the podium

[Manfer]

- Why didn't they pit Bottas and where is "it's James" begging for forgiveness ? They took care of this one nicely.

Then Bottas would have been on used Softs behind Vettel on fresh Softs and since they knew that their pace and deg. on the Mediums was very good they decided to stay out hoping that Bottas could hold off Vettel.

I have another view of this.
If they had bought Bottas in, he would have been behind Vettel with relatively fresher set of softs compared to Hamilton, who had pitted few laps before the safety car. I don't think they had the intention of pitting Hamilton as his tyres were in much better condition. Having Bottas infront of Hamilton with better tyres would have meant he would finish 3 at best. I think they purposely sacrificed Bottas for the betterment of Hamilton.
If what happened to Bottas happened to Hamilton today, heads would definitely have rolled before the next race.

[Redragon]

I think this race showed that the engine number of 3 engines a year are destroying the sport, because when they want and relise the power on this cars they are really fast, otherwise how Hamilton manage to come back to the front, even before the SC. I think they should let them be in terms of number of engines and let them push to the max.

[bonjon1979]

If they (Hamilton, Toto and James) retract their statements later this week then it's easy to see that Mercedes are changing media tactics. It's no longer a close title race but a dirty tactics one.

Hah, it’s a world championship at stake, they’re not retracting anything. I emphasise that what happened today was TOTALLY a racing incident. Kimi locked up and misjudged the corner. Even as a Hamilton fan you have to just accept that this happens during racing and it’s ludicrous to think Kimi would do this as some grand scheme. In many ways, I thought his mistake was more forgiveable than Sebs the week before which makes the 10 second v 5 second slightly confusing. HOWEVER, Merc and Ferrari, Hamilton and vettel are in a titanic battle now and to be quite frank, a Ferrari has nerfed a merc off in the last two races and cost the team points. It’s a tactical game to try to put Ferrari on the back foot. Hamilton did exactly the same with rosberg in ‘14 or ‘15 when he suggested he deliberately put him off the road. It puts pressure on the Ferrari drivers, if it happens again in the next few races then the stewards might come down much more hard on Ferrari. Mind games, that’s all it is. Great rave today too!

[bonjon1979]

Race not rave. That was a different field somewhere in Northamptonshire

[PlatinumZealot]

Nice race! I forgive kimi lewis should have done a better start.

[Brenton]

Congrats to Ferrari and Vettel, they were flawless today.

But if Hamilton can fall back to last and still finish two seconds behind Vettel, I think that proves the only thing wrong at Mercedes is their strategy. When they were miles ahead of the rest it didn't matter, but with Ferrari this competitive they really need to bring their A-game every time.

Oh, and did Verstappen crash today?

You must remember we had two safety cars bunching up the field and the use of high power settings on the PU side plus the fact that their car works very well around this track. That all contributed greatly to his come back.

I just hope this season continues to be close. Today was an absolute cracker. This season seems to produce a few of those with, admittedly, some dull ones in between to keep us watching.

MAMBA

It was a very good race to watch indeed. However, one the became very evident again: the gap between the top cars and the rest of the field. In France and here, a fast car falling behind is cutting through the field like a hot knife through butter. And the 3 DRS zones might help in fights for positions but boy, do they help the top cars to come back.

It's effectively a 2-tier show now with Merc and Ferrari + RB mostly in the mix. Then big gap and whoever comes next. Makes Engine penalties etc. look a lot less scary for the top teams as well. Take it at Spa or Monza and just drive by the other cars while starting from behind. A single Safety car and you're in for the podium

I too wish there wasn't such a gap but realistically, a big part of why you're seeing this gap from top to 2nd tier is that Red Bull and Ferrari have caught up to Mercedes. If Ferrari was 0.5s off Mercedes and Red Bull 1.2s then there would be no big gap from top to mid tier... it would be a gradual step in performance from strongest to weakest team.

[Zynerji]

The gap is just going to drive more listed parts deals...

I'm almost thinking the Williams situation is being done "on purpose", from the inside, to push them into a deal to buy Merc parts...